Clutch fork to the right and NO FREE PLAY...WISEMEN ### help

[Artago]

Hi all, got a problem.

Just installed my ACT 2600 with XACT flywheel and ACT TOB (I know, but please save that for another thread).

Anyways with the slave cylinder removed the clutch fork is to the right (driver side) and I can't not move it at all with my hand.

With the salve cylinder out shouldn't I be able to move the clutch fork to the left (passenger side) until the TOB makes contact with the pressure plate?

Since I can not move it at all, does that mean that the TOB is currently pressing on the pressure plate? If so, then that will kill my thrust bearings quickly, corect?

What I want to know is if it should have some free play before the TOB contacts the pressure plate and since mine doesn't it means it's ALREADY contacting the pressure plate.

How do I get this free play back? Do in need to step the flywheel? Basically cut it down so create some room?

Thanks all,

Tom

 

[Artago]

Here's a pic of the clutch fork (from the top) with the slave cylinder disconnected.

As you can see it's to the far right and the has 0 free play.

Please advise.

Tom
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gktQA5rZ87vKC6yyBwqPCg?authkey=Gv1sRgCN6wp-69uMD1xQE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfJ4s2kUMHI/AAAAAAAAHlI/QaspIMpaaw4/s400/0424091927.jpg" /></a></td></tr></table>

 

[nuclearr]

Did you shim the pivot ball? If so you need to take it out.

Also make sure the wire clip for the two out bearing did not come off. If it did it can spin the throwout bearing and wedge up against the fork causing a similar problem.

 

[Artago]

Did you shim the pivot ball? If so you need to take it out.

Also make sure the wire clip for the two out bearing did not come off. If it did it can spin the throwout bearing and wedge up against the fork causing a similar problem.

The pivot ball has not been shimmed.

I'm pulling the tranny tomorrow to get a better look.

The TOB wont disconnect from the pressure plate and the fork has zero side-to-side play.

Keep the suggestions coming. I need all the info I can get before I pull the tranny tomorrow.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[nuclearr]

Also did you make sure the fly wheel was in spec for the clutch? If it is to deep it will let the tines on the pressure plate stick out more than usual and can cause this.

But I bet the TOB keeper wire popped off and your throwout bearing is wedged against the fork.

 

[Artago]

Also did you make sure the fly wheel was in spec for the clutch? If it is to deep it will let the tines on the pressure plate stick out more than usual and can cause this.

I bought the clutch as a kit from JNZ. It included the XACT flywheel, 2600 pressure plate, Street Disk, and TOB. When I asked about the "step" I was told it was already stepped properly.

But I bet the TOB keeper wire popped off and your throwout bearing is wedged against the fork.

I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

Although I can still wedge a pry bar in there and get the fork to move to the passenger side to disengage the clutch, it just wont engage fully (I think) because the TOB is always pushing on the pressure plate.

I'll check the keeper wire and tob/fork mating to see if there is something funky going on.

Keep the posts coming,

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Artago]

Other than the clip coming loose.

What could cause the TOB to be pressed up against the pressure plate all the time?

 

[kawboy]

Shimmed pivot ball is my guess

Did you buy the car with a stock clutch

 

[Artago]

Shimmed pivot ball is my guess

Did you buy the car with a stock clutch

I bought the car with a stock clutch.

I had a shop swap it for an ACT 2600 about a year ago.

A few months later the thrust bearing and main bearings got destroyed.

I just had the motor rebuilt. My dad mated the tranny to the motor while I was at work and then we dropped the motor/tranny in. After the installation I noticed the clutch was hanging. I checked out the fork and noticed the problem.

I've never shimmed the pivot ball but then again, I wasn't the one installing it. I'll check tomorrow to see if it's been shimmed. I asked my dad and he say's he didn't shim it but it's possible it was shimmed already but I highly doubt.

I'm dropping the tranny tomorrow so I'll know for sure then.

Thanks,

Tom

PS: Keep the posts coming. I appreciate the effort and advice.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

How many miles are on the fork and ball?
Is it possible the disc was installed backwards?

Just some ideas for you to look into. nuclearr really has you covered though. He has some fairly good insights.

Hope you get it all sorted out.

 

[Artago]

How many miles are on the fork and ball?
Is it possible the disc was installed backwards?

Just some ideas for you to look into. nuclearr really has you covered though. He has some fairly good insights.

Hope you get it all sorted out.

About 3000 miles on the pivot ball and I do believe the fork is the same. I think I replaced both at the same time.

Regarding the clutch disc being backwards, that was one of the things we checked before bolting up the pressure plate.

But like always, I'll double check tomorrow and post back. Thanks bud.

Tom

 

[Artago]

Mother-less son of a b!tch.

No only was the pivot ball shimmed but it was double shimmed.

I removed both shims and I'm trying to source an OEM TOB. The local SATAN (dealership) quoted me 6-7 business days and $68. F that. Going to extremePSI.

Should I be replacing the clutch fork as well? How can I tell if mine is in good shape?

Tom

 

[kawboy]

Hah I was correct.

JNZtuning.net for the OEM TOB

And you're probably not gonna need a fork, unless where the ball goes is all worn out, or the edge where it rides on the TOB is worn, or it's rusted/damaged.

 

[Artago]

Here are some pics:

Click on the pics to see larger versions.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HBtTRR2sHoVn-g4CcYDqBw?authkey=Gv1sRgCN6wp-69uMD1xQE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfO3EG83oqI/AAAAAAAAHnA/p-MmcwNvLQ0/s400/0425091819.jpg" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XMNmPvvESOf5eygXdKUW0A?authkey=Gv1sRgCN6wp-69uMD1xQE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfOyvN3pV8I/AAAAAAAAHmA/gVdLYHMn1Uk/s400/0425091758.jpg" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/4vUN0ggETX6eQ-iJQ5J-2A?authkey=Gv1sRgCN6wp-69uMD1xQE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfOyveUJypI/AAAAAAAAHmI/tYQ2TZFiC5Q/s400/0425091759.jpg" /></a>


Notice how the fork is worn down, this is where is was rubbing against the pressure plate.
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/EL6XqzwvqqMBOFHf3mT8CA?authkey=Gv1sRgCN6wp-69uMD1xQE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfOyvzmTSQI/AAAAAAAAHmQ/3EO4FEB6MP0/s400/0425091759a.jpg" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8UhyyXLP4i2PZQBrygQYaw?authkey=Gv1sRgCN6wp-69uMD1xQE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfOyw6g39TI/AAAAAAAAHmY/OemRREa-gH4/s400/0425091759b.jpg" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fCqnmsf_thzJA8aHF3YtpA?authkey=Gv1sRgCN6wp-69uMD1xQE&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfOyxIusMcI/AAAAAAAAHmg/FvisZ2hMB50/s400/0425091800.jpg" /></a>

I think it would be safe to get a new one.

Just to re-iterate. There were 2 shims under the pivot ball (1/16" & 1/8"). I removed both, this is the correct approach?

Also, due to the fact that it's a ACT 2600 w/ street disc and XACT flywheel, I will need more fork travel to fully disengage the clutch correct? If so, will I need a clutch extension rod? I can leave it as is for now and see how it behaves once it's on the road. Then if I need to I can put one in. But should I order it now anyways?

Tom

 

[kawboy]

Add or subtract enough shims to get your fork sitting in the middle of the window.

Your fork looks to be in good shape, minus the surface rust? Keep grease on there.. should of never rusted.

 

[Artago]

Add or subtract enough shims to get your fork sitting in the middle of the window.

Your fork looks to be in good shape, minus the surface rust? Keep grease on there.. should of never rusted.

The end of the fork should be in the middle of the window when the TOB is contacted to the pressure plate, correct?

Then it should also have a bit of free play towards the driver side (with the slave removed), correct?

What about the extension rod. I've heard mixed reviews.

Tom

 

[nuclearr]

Thats correct but you may want to keep the extension rod. It has nothing to do with the current problem.

 

[Artago]

Thats correct but you may want to keep the extension rod. It has nothing to do with the current problem.

Cool. The new OEM TOB should be here Wednesday. I'll post the results once I get it all together again.

Tom

 

[Morphius]

What about the extension rod. I've heard mixed reviews.

Unless you want to intentionally induce pedal pump up, then the extension rod will do nothing. It will only work if you induce that condition and as you know, pedal pump up is bad and creates other problems.

The ingenius thing about the hydraulic clutch system is that it's self adjusting. As your clutch wears, the fork will ride towards the drivers side more and more. The Slave Cylinder (S/C) rod/piston will ride deeper and deeper in the body of the S/C. At any time with the clutch pedal released, you should be able to push the S/C rod into the body of the S/C. If you can't, your pedal is misadjusted. If you follow the concept of the hydraulics self adjusting, then you will understand that if you put a longer rod in there, it just biases the piston in the S/C body in another position, it's new nominal point. The way to change increase S/C output is through a ratio change, whether it's S/C or Master Cylinder (M/C) sizes, clutch line sizes, pedal/M/C attachement point, or a different length release fork.

Stay away from the extension rod.

 

[Artago]

Unless you want to intentionally induce pedal pump up, then the extension rod will do nothing. It will only work if you induce that condition and as you know, pedal pump up is bad and creates other problems.

The ingenius thing about the hydraulic clutch system is that it's self adjusting. As your clutch wears, the fork will ride towards the drivers side more and more. The Slave Cylinder (S/C) rod/piston will ride deeper and deeper in the body of the S/C. At any time with the clutch pedal released, you should be able to push the S/C rod into the body of the S/C. If you can't, your pedal is misadjusted. If you follow the concept of the hydraulics self adjusting, then you will understand that if you put a longer rod in there, it just biases the piston in the S/C body in another position, it's new nominal point. The way to change increase S/C output is through a ratio change, whether it's S/C or Master Cylinder (M/C) sizes, clutch line sizes, pedal/M/C attachement point, or a different length release fork.

Stay away from the extension rod.

I see I see. Makes sense.

I've heard the ACT 2600 pressure plate requires more travel on the fingers to fully disengage, at least that's what I've heard. Will the stock S/C and M/C setup be able to provide enough push on the S/C rod to get all that travel for the ACT 2600 pressure plate?

If not, what do I need to do if I get disengagement problems?
(The tranny is still out of the car, waiting on a OEM TOB, this is just a preemptive question

Tom

 

[kawboy]

I've never had a problem on my 2g's with the stock rod.

As long as your TOB, Ball, Fork are all in good condition.. you shouldn't have a problem

 

[Artago]

I've never had a problem on my 2g's with the stock rod.

As long as your TOB, Ball, Fork are all in good condition.. you shouldn't have a problem

Wicked.... good to hear that. The new TOB will be here on Wednesday (hopefully) so I'll post back to wrap up this thread.

Thanks for your help everyone,

Tom