AWD auto to manual swap. . . Can you use the automatic driveshaft?

[dsm-onster]

I've not seen a definate answer to this question.

I'm swapping a 1Ga auto tranny out for a 5speed tranny for more beater fun. Can you use the automatic driveshaft? I see that the 5speed motormounts move the engine/tranny assembly to the firewall about 1/2 inch. . .

 

[twicks69]

Yes, you can use the automatic driveshaft. You may need to swap the carrier bearings though, as they could have an offset flange bolt-pattern.

I will check through CAPS tomorrow or Friday to see if there is a part number variation between the carrier bearings on the 1G auto vs. the 1G manual and will get back to you.

Good luck!

 

[toofast82]

I've always been told/read it will work. Ive only seen one carrier bearing listed as well. Worst case is you may need front/back mounts which i was curious about as well?. Ill be going through all this when the weather clears as i've been sourcing parts all winter.

 

[turbosax2]

I will check through CAPS tomorrow or Friday to see if there is a part number variation between the carrier bearings on the 1G auto vs. the 1G manual and will get back to you.

They're the same in CAPS. The whole driveshaft assemblies have the same part numbers too.

 

[MaNGiNa24]

Do they both utilize the same transfer case? If so the driveshafts would be the same.

 

[buddahboost]

^ I though auto's and 5spds had a differnet xfer case. The xfer case has a different gear ratio...

 

[dsm-onster]

Thanx Tim and Eric.

The transfer case between a/t and m/t have Tranny gear ratios for DSMs. Between 1g and 2g the gear ratio is different.

The automatic transfer case has a different bolt pattern and won't bolton to the 5speed tranny.

And to clearify my original post. I've measured the difference of where the motor sits in the FWD manual 1g T/E/L and AWD auto T/E/L and actually the AWD puts the motor closer to the front by about 1/2 inch. I measured the passenger and driver side mounting locations on the frame using the a/c heat exchanger support as a reference. And the automatic awd actually moves the motor closer to the radiator by 1/2 inch. The driverside L shaped motor mount is identical for all 1g years; but the actual frame molding that holds the mount is forward about 1/2 inch. The passenger side mount that bolts to the frame is the same shape for all 1g years; but the actual bolt pattern on the frame is forward about 1/2 inch. So, the 1990 FWD turbo 5speed has the motor sitting farther back.

The 1990 FWD M/T rear roll stop (part that bolts to the block) is longer. I don't know if the M/T AWD is the same. This was originally throwing me off and is the reason for my original post.

The 1990 FWD M/T crossmember is different. It is lower because no driveshaft has to go under it. This means that the roll stop portion that fastens to the crossmember has to be taller. My take on this: This puts more strain on it and thus they made the rear rollstop portion on the block longer, and made the rollstop portion on the crossmember shaped to accept the longer length to give that point more leverage to releave that stress.

I've had several people who've swapped the from AWD manual to AWD auto or vise versa, save one, say they didn't have to swap any motor mount except the tranny mount because of the difference in the mount. And they only had to swap the tranny side of the mount not the frame side. So I'm under the assumption that the manual and auto awd move the motor forward the same amount. And so all I would need to get the 5speed running is (1991 eclipse):

1. 5speed transfer case
2. the one 5speed tranny mount
3. 5speed rear differential
4. shifter cables and shifter, brackets for cable, and matching shifter arms on the tranny
5. clutch/brake pedal assemby
6. Master and slave plus line
7. 5speed engine/starter backplate
8. AWD 6bolt flywheel, bolts, clutch kit
9. 5speed tranny

I have all these parts except for the flywheel. And I'm ready to start cutting out holes. I just wanted to be sure that's all I needed. There could be differences in part numbers but if every thing still lines up, I'd be ok with that. I have a blog about this and my progress so far: 1Ga AWD auto to manual conversion. . .

I test-fit the automatic intermediate shaft into the tranny with the tranny bolted to the motor and it fits perfectly. I've looked on CAPS and see different part numbers for all the front shaft pieces. And I was told there's VERY minor differences in lengths and the intermediat shaft carrier is slightly differnt, but that the front halfshaft components should work fine. But like I said, after test fiting and measuring the front diff location/width, everything appears exactly interchangeable.

 

[toofast82]

I just completed my awd auto to 5spd swap( I still have to switch rear diffs, though)
The driveshaft works fine as well as the cv axles
The only issue i am having is my starter is omitting a high pitch noise when starting, sounds like a "mini" starter. I used the auto engine/starter plate and cut it out for the starter, but did use the piece I cut to shim the starter.
It was pretty straightforward, though! Your parts list pretty much sums it up except you will need 1 more of the long transfer case bolts

 

[dsm-onster]

Thanx for the reply. I need another long transfer case bolt?

EDIT: . . . Oh I see. The 5speed transfer case has three long bolt locations. Thanx for the heads up.

 

[toofast82]

I'm kind of curious why my starter is whining?
I'm wondering if I should try with out the shim or add a washer?
I have a fidanza flywheel, but i would assume the ring gear would sit where stock flywheel would.
I had a fidanza in my last talon, but it was originally 5spd and there were no starter issues.
Isn't the 5spd plate thicker than the auto if i remember correctly? The auto one is pretty thin if i'd have to say

 

[dsm-onster]

Hmm. I've held both both in my hand. And I didn't notice a difference in thickness. Actually, a side note: the FWD turbo engine/starter plate fit's right onto the Automatic AWD transmission, with the starter hole perfectly matched. I don't know why you're getting noise. You have an AWD fidanza FW right? A FWD FW is wider in diamter than an AWD FW.

 

[toofast82]

Got the starter thing sorted out. I took out the shim I cut out, and added two small washers between tranny and starter, pushing it away from tranny a little more. Yes i'm sure i have an awd flywheel, too.
My driver side axle seal on the tranny is leaking, i still have to swap the rear diff. I'll take care of these tomorrow hopefully. I drove it around the block a few just to make sure it goes through the gears. I also seen its a switchable tranny too! I don't have the tcase for it to operate fwd, but I can lock up the front diff at the track

 

[TSiturbo001]

how did you guys make out on your swaps? i have a 93 awd auto im swapping a 6bolt and manual tranny into. just wondering if either of you have anything to add since this thread was written or if its all pretty much covered here. thanks

 

[mach4g63t]

how did you guys make out on your swaps? i have a 93 awd auto im swapping a 6bolt and manual tranny into. just wondering if either of you have anything to add since this thread was written or if its all pretty much covered here. thanks

I'm really interested in this thread now too. You say that swapping from auto to manual moves the motor a different direction by 1/2 an inch? Is this true with a 92.5?

The original motor/tranny was a 6/4 setup. I swapped in my 6/4 setup from my 93 TSi with it's manual transmission. Everything mated up fine. It seemed a really tight getting the L-mount to go in, but it was the last one I secured. It confused me, but I didn't pay it much mind. Well, I got everything swapped in and running and began to notice that now my car was having issues with the shifter. It wouldn't fully lock 1st and pops out very easy, it's a PITA to find 2nd and even then it sometimes now grinds, and all the rest of the gears just don't feel like they should or did prior to the install. Even mounting the shift cables made me think something was off alignment but I couldn't figure out what. No matter how I adjusted the cables, nothing would fix it. I figured my trans was going down the hole.

Would this shift in the swap be a potential cause for this? I can't remember which mounts I used but I think I used all my 1g (manual 93 GSX) Mounts because my prothanes were already pressed into them. Does this make sense to anyone or am I on a wild goose chase? I will be coming home from the desert in about a week's time and this is going to be one of my biggest issues to address. I have a new FW to install and if I can figure this all out before hand I can fix it at the same time.

Also, the most frustrating part is that the transmission will slide into every gear by hand without the cables attached. But with the cables it's a different story.

 

[dsm-onster]

I had been confused in my initial post. I was reference a FWD 5speed engine bay vs. an AWD auto enginebay.

To clerify, the AWD auto and AWD 5speed engine bay have the engine mounts in the exact same location. So there's no problem with the whole engine/trans assembly being shifted forward or backward. Everything is bolting up just fine so far. I have the 5speed rear diff swapped in. And the 5speed transfer works onto the aut drive shaft just fine. So the auto drive shaft is good on both ends. And seams to line up exactly perfect to the 5speed. So there's no shifting of the motor/trans assembly between AWD aut and AWD 5speed.

There IS an difference in where the motor/trans is located in the engine bay with a FWD 5speed vs. an AWD auto/5speed. The FWD moves the assembly back about 1.5". I havn't verified if the FWD auto engine bay pushes the assembly back too. All this is in reference to a 1g. Nothing 2g here.

 

[TSiturbo001]

I had been confused in my initial post. I was reference a FWD 5speed engine bay vs. an AWD auto enginebay.

To clerify, the AWD auto and AWD 5speed engine bay have the engine mounts in the exact same location. So there's no problem with the whole engine/trans assembly being shifted forward or backward. Everything is bolting up just fine so far. I have the 5speed rear diff swapped in. And the 5speed transfer works onto the aut drive shaft just fine. So the auto drive shaft is good on both ends. And seams to line up exactly perfect to the 5speed. So there's no shifting of the motor/trans assembly between AWD aut and AWD 5speed.

There IS an difference in where the motor/trans is located in the engine bay with a FWD 5speed vs. an AWD auto/5speed. The FWD moves the assembly back about 1.5". I havn't verified if the FWD auto engine bay pushes the assembly back too. All this is in reference to a 1g. Nothing 2g here.

great, thanks for the reply. ive heard you need to swap wiring harnesses but it looks like you got away without doing this, did you have to mod any wiring during this swap?

Also IIRC, dont the manual shifter cables and tranny linkage need to be matched? I want to make sure before i go out and get a tranny and cables. thanks

 

[phunny]

You do not have to swap the wiring harness

 

[toofast82]

great, thanks for the reply. ive heard you need to swap wiring harnesses but it looks like you got away without doing this, did you have to mod any wiring during this swap?

Also IIRC, dont the manual shifter cables and tranny linkage need to be matched? I want to make sure before i go out and get a tranny and cables. thanks

You don't need to swap wiring harnesses, you just need to splice two wires on the transmission harness to tell the ecu the car is in park all of the time to start it.

You will want to have matching shifter and cables for whichever year your transmission is. 91-94 are the same while 90 is the year everything is different. You can use nonturbo parts for the pedal/shifter/linkage if needed. I did
Axles, mounts, and driveshaft will fit just fine.

I would recommend getting the correct awd 5spd starter plate as well. I cut my auto one and had to use washers to align the starter correctly.
Has to be awd flywheel if youre awd and same for fwd

I did the swap about 2 1/2 months ago with over 2k miles since.
Hopefully your crank bushing isn't seized to the crank like mine was

 

[dsm-onster]

Just for reference the FWD 5speed turbo starter plate is IDENTICAL to the AWD 5speed turbo starter plate

 

[mach4g63t]

Thanks for clearing that up. I am using different set of shifter cables in the car as my orignial ones got bent and broke during the removal from the GSX. I am using a pair I got from a friend that he swore were non-90 1g. How do you tell the difference between 1g and 2g shifter cables? Do you think I could have possibly installed FWD shifter cables? Would those be a different length? Because length seems to be an issue, that's why I tried adjusting them and all I could do was make the car driveable at best.

 

[toofast82]

Do you think I could have possibly installed FWD shifter cables? Would those be a different length? Because length seems to be an issue, that's why I tried adjusting them and all I could do was make the car driveable at best.

It doesn't matter whether its from awd or fwd for the shifter cables and shifter. I have all nonturbo shifter/pedal/cables. It's just whether they are from a 90 or 91-94.