(Title change:) Opinions on ACT2900 vs ACT2600 useing a SBC Kevlar disk

Black_Bullet · Sep 27, 2008

So as I was hopeing for some decent e316g passes with my setup I smoked current clutch at the track today on my first weak pass...

I currently have a south bend 2200 pressure plate with a half kevlar half ceramic disk.
I knew it was coming because the last time I was at the track out on race gas and more boost it started slipping bad on me after I came out the hole with the 2step and 2nd gear NLTS...

After the first time clutch slipped I still was able to DD it, and after a week, the clutch was back to normal and I was back tuning and running high boost and doing street pulls to 100+mph no problems; so I assumed the clutch was good enough to handle pump gas track passes. I do know that Kevlar disks are good for resurfacing and working again even after they have been slipped bad unlike organic/ceramic disks.

So now I am in the market for a aftermarket clutch setup. I do not have money for twin disk,
but I need a clutch that will hold up to whatever I throw at it and in the future I plan on spraying this car up to 100shot of n20 on a full tilt high boost e85 evo316g setup.

I want this new clutch setup to last a long time with no slippage or irregular wear, so I need to emphasize on it being a clutch that has a lot of clamping force due to the massive torque spikes Id get from e316g and nitrous. I need to be able to consistently hold 500-550 ft/lbs of torque with the spray, whether I can make that kind of power in the future or not...

So to play it safe, I plan to skip the whole 2600 pp thing and go straight to the 2900 just for piece of mind.
As of now I already have my mind made up on going with the southbend full kevlar disk which
( dsmtuner wiseman- Twicks69 ) gave me such a great review on with his own experiences that it sold me.
Clutch Disks for the Mitsubishi 2G Eclipse-Talon ( Its the one at the bottom of the page for 160.)
I spoke with Twicks69 about 5 or 6 months ago when I was originally looking at clutch upgrades.
Heres some of his other sources of recommendation towards the South Bend Kevlar Clutch...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/278703-clutch.html#post151365892
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/151177125-post3.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/151112660-post2.html

***
My last hold up before I lay down cash is whether I should get the act 2600, or ACT2900 PP and Id like to get opinions from ppl using either one or whom have ran both.
All opinions input/ideas welcomed.I plan on buying in a week or so...
I just want to make sure Im not gettin over my head with the 2900 since I dont want any clutch disengagement issues, though Ive heard it is lighter pedal pressure than a 2600?
How will that tie in with the engagement, disengagement vs the 2600?

TSIfreek · Sep 27, 2008

I would go with a the kevlar set up from competition clutch. I have it in my car and really like it. I have gone 11.80s as well as a dozen 12.0s on this clutch 2 steping with link at 5600 at the track at 23 psi with out any issues on street tires. It has a 2700 lb pressure plate so your set there . Its there stage one or two. I also have there street flywheel.
I dont like mixing up clutch components as there desighned to work together. I have always stayed away from ACT there are far better clutches out there now.
You can get the clutch from MAPerformance as they are a vender on here.

Black_Bullet · Sep 28, 2008

TSIfreek said:
I would go with a the kevlar set up from competition clutch. I have it in my car and really like it. I have gone 11.80s as well as a dozen 12.0s on this clutch 2 steping with link at 5600 at the track at 23 psi with out any issues on street tires. It has a 2700 lb pressure plate so your set there . Its there stage one or two. I also have there street flywheel.
I dont like mixing up clutch components as there desighned to work together. I have always stayed away from ACT there are far better clutches out there now.
You can get the clutch from MAPerformance as they are a vender on here.

Im sure there are better options I just dont know them... I was just trying to stay with something I knew worked that a lot of people ran.

How much did you pay for your kevlar disk?Any link to yours in specific, is it cheaper than the one I linked from south bend for 160?

Also, opinions on how important is replacing the clutch fork?
Im already scraping together the money and If I can get by without getting a new fork it would help me income wise, but im all about doing it once doing it right so id get it if I had to...

1gDSM4g63 · Sep 28, 2008

TSIfreek said:
I would go with a the kevlar set up from competition clutch...

...I have always stayed away from ACT there are far better clutches out there now.

I second, I have had an issue with ACT and some people say they sent out a bad batch but after the second one I never went back.

Go with at least kevlar or ceramics.

Black_Bullet · Sep 28, 2008

1gDSM4g63 said:
I second, I have had an issue with ACT and some people say they sent out a bad batch but after the second one I never went back.

Go with at least kevlar or ceramics.

Feel free to elaborate on your issues with ACT.
I am taking everything in to account... I have the money now to buy, and though I am set on the disk to use, Its still up in the air as far as the pressure plate goes, therefore I am going to wait a day or two to gather enough opinions, and useful information to make a more educated decision other than just relying on popular consensus...

I have been researching other threads and sure everything has already been covered before, but still hopefully enough people will take the time to contribute to "this" thread before I seal the deal and make the purchase...

I have ran a ACT2600 PP before on my previous dsm a couple yrs back, though it was a front wheel drive I still have an idea of how they are. Im more inparticularly concerned with how the act 2900's do on these trannies, and as far as disengagement goes and pedal pressure/ feel, consistency...
:thumb:

Heres a older thread I posted in before regarding this same stuff http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/281961-act-2600-2900-a.html

andy4g63 · Sep 28, 2008

I have ah ACT 2600 with 6 puck sprung disk and it feels great. It is rated at 513 lb/ft of torque. The 2900 PP with 4 puck sprung disk is rated at 595 lb/ft of torque. If you think you are going above that, than you are for twin disk.

twicks69 · Sep 28, 2008

Well, you PM'ed me to respond to this thread; I still stick by the 2600 and the SBC kevlar disk.

Either way, I will strongly reccomend using a new clutch fork, pivot ball, and have a properly functioning and properly adjusted master and slave cylinder setup with a stainless clutch line.

Black_Bullet · Sep 28, 2008

twicks69 said:
Well, you PM'ed me to respond to this thread; I still stick by the 2600 and the SBC kevlar disk.

Either way, I will strongly reccomend using a new clutch fork, pivot ball, and have a properly functioning and properly adjusted master and slave cylinder setup with a stainless clutch line.

Tim, thanks for checking out the thread.
I have a stainless clutch line, and properly working/adjusted master and slave cylinders.
I dont have a new pivot ball but theres a nickle sized washer under it, and I will look into replacing the clutch fork.

I know you stand behind the 2600 based on your experience with it.
You havent ran a 2900 have you? Do you think theres anything wrong with going 2900 on the SBC kevlar disk?
Is my idea of extra leeway with the stronger pressure plate more so unnessecary overkill? Will a 2600 really suffice? Ive read a lot of threads on other cars were someone mentioned their 2600s slipping ( on different disk's) right around/ or a little less than the power level im aiming for in the future.
Is there anyone that thinks I shouldnt run a 2900 over the 2600 for my goals with the clutch disk of choice?

I know It probably seems like Im over analyzing and I already got this covered as far as what I want to do and my goals etc, but Im just making sure because its still a lot of money that I am dropping...
Thanks

turbosax2 · Sep 28, 2008

My brother and I recently started looking for a new clutch for him. After MUCH research and talking with Tim, we decided on his recommendation of the SBC kevlar disk, 2600pp, and Fidanza flywheel. We also considered the 2900, but this post confirmed the 2600 decision:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/259276-act-2600-2900-help-me-pick.html#post151181836

Black_Bullet · Sep 28, 2008

I think Ive read that thread before awhile ago, but I must've didnt really focas on that part...
So basically this is what your getting at from that link:

U should talk to jon at TRE he will tell you the limits of the dsm transmissions and how to keep em alive. I am getting mine built and will have it back in 2 weeks. He says that the 2600 with a street disc is good for 10s and is perfectly matched for the transmission tolerences. In other words the clutch should be the same strength or a bit weaker than the transmission. The 2600lb clutch is a proven high 10 second clutch if properly adjusted and in good working order. I'd rather beat up a clutch than a transmission any day.

I just left Jon's shop a few hours ago. He vividly explained the above post to me.

In a nutshell, it's not good to run a gigantic, heavy pressure plate when you have an aggressive disc with a higher heat coefficient. All the 2900 PP is going to do it cause more heat with one of those kevlar or ceramic discs, and it will result in warping. With those discs, more pressure plate just isn't needed.

If you are going to use a kevlar or ceramic pad disc, stick with the 2600 PP.
If you are going to use the 2900 PP, then opt for a non-copper street disc.

(I'd recommend the first option.)

Anyone else have any thoughts on that... ^

twicks69 · Sep 29, 2008

I would tend to agree. A 2900 is overkill for this application.

Your other alternative is a twin-disk.

Black_Bullet said:
I think Ive read that thread before awhile ago, but I must've didnt really focas on that part...
So basically this is what your getting at from that link:

Anyone else have any thoughts on that... ^

Savage Talon · Sep 29, 2008

I had a CFDF pressure plate with the SB Kevlar disc and it worked great for a while. The only thing I did not like about it was it started slipping when it got hot. If I tried to slip it out of the hole it would free rev in the boost. If I dropped the clutch it hooked fine but slipped once I got into 3rd from heat. I could street drive it with no problems and do wide open pulls with no problems. But as soon as you add in the heat from a launch it was done until it cooled down. I was doing 11.5 @ 125 and the car weighed 3100#'s without me in it. I put a PTT twin disc in and never looked back.

Black_Bullet · Sep 29, 2008

Savage Talon said:
I had a CFDF pressure plate with the SB Kevlar disc and it worked great for a while. The only thing I did not like about it was it started slipping when it got hot. If I tried to slip it out of the hole it would free rev in the boost. If I dropped the clutch it hooked fine but slipped once I got into 3rd from heat. I could street drive it with no problems and do wide open pulls with no problems. But as soon as you add in the heat from a launch it was done until it cooled down. I was doing 11.5 @ 125 and the car weighed 3100#'s without me in it. I put a PTT twin disc in and never looked back.

Thats what my current clutch setup is/was doing.
Could handle plenty of street pulls etc, but the launch and NLTS would cause it to be slipping bad by the top of 2nd. But my current pressure plate is only 2200.

I ran that CFDF before in a non turbo car and I didnt like it, felt too stock like.
I need a manly clutch setup that wont cry when I start spraying 100shot, so I really think I need something that can hold up to 500-550ft/lbs of torque and high 10 sec track launches... I know it sounds like heavy goals since Im just on a e316g, but it doesnt sound farfeitched to me being that Im shooting for a little under/over 400awhp just all boost and e85 with the e316g and the 100shot should add 100whp to that no problem, and it may have a much nastier torque curve then say if I made that kind of power on a 35r or something. I feel id be cutting it close with the 2600...

Thats why I was leaning towards the 2900 just to be safe so I dont have to do it again. Id love to have a twin disk setup, but its just not possible with my income.
Id be down for another 3-4 months trying to get that, and this car is still my daily.
Sorry to sound like im going in circles or over analyzing this guys

Black_Bullet · Sep 29, 2008

TSIfreek said:
I would go with a the kevlar set up from competition clutch. I have it in my car and really like it. It has a 2700 lb pressure plate so your set there . Its there stage one or two.

Ok last straws, say If I werent to get something from ACT.
What if say I did this competition clutch - 2700 with the SBC Kevlar disk?
What other good reputable pressure plates are out there that would be
middle ground between a 2600 and a 2900, that would still work well with the tranny, clutch disengagement?

90laserRSfwd · Sep 29, 2008

Just go with the ACT 2600 / SBC Kevlar / OEM T/O Bearing setup. It's proven to work. As for another non ACT pressure plate, you could check out the clutch setup that SBR sells.

Black_Bullet · Sep 29, 2008

90laserRSfwd said:
Just go with the ACT 2600 / SBC Kevlar / OEM T/O Bearing setup. It's proven to work. As for another non ACT pressure plate, you could check out the clutch setup that SBR sells.

Yea that just may be what happens to be honest.

ACT2600, SBC Kevlar, OEM TOB, and a new clutch fork is how its looking right now...

Savage Talon · Sep 29, 2008

Yeah the 2600 SB disc combo is a great street combo and should hold anything your E316g could throw at it. I would check out what ClutchNet has to offer first though.

Black_Bullet · Sep 29, 2008

Savage Talon said:
Yeah the 2600 SB disc combo is a great street combo and should hold anything your E316g could throw at it. I would check out what ClutchNet has to offer first though.

I wasnt worried about what the e316g could throw at it, I was worried about the 100shot on top of that. Ok and I will look into ClutchNet too.

JayRolla · Sep 29, 2008

Black_Bullet said:
I wasnt worried about what the e316g could throw at it, I was worried about the 100shot on top of that. Ok and I will look into ClutchNet too.

Did you get that setup? I dont know why no one is recommending ceramic 4 or 6 puck over a kevlar disc. I know Jack at Jacktransmissions has ripped through some kevlar discs and said that he has the best luck with ceramic.

Im ran my ceramic disc for about 6 months with some heftly launches and blew my clutch fork. When I replaced it I checked the flywheel and it looked like new, so did the clutch. Didnt even look like I had used it. I was shocked! Im used to seeing a worn clutch everytime I pulled my tranny, LOL

.

I also will be getting a 100 shot once I get an eprom and some lower timing maps.

Black_Bullet · Oct 2, 2008

JayRolla said:
Did you get that setup? I dont know why no one is recommending ceramic 4 or 6 puck over a kevlar disc. I know Jack at Jacktransmissions has ripped through some kevlar discs and said that he has the best luck with ceramic.

Im ran my ceramic disc for about 6 months with some heftly launches and blew my clutch fork. When I replaced it I checked the flywheel and it looked like new, so did the clutch. Didnt even look like I had used it. I was shocked! Im used to seeing a worn clutch everytime I pulled my tranny, .

I also will be getting a 100 shot once I get an eprom and some lower timing maps.

How much power was he making when he ripped thru those kevlars. What PP was he running?

Oh and btw I think a 100shot will be a bit too rough on old stock motor at that power level. I will limit myself to a 75shot until I do the rods and pistons.

*** Update, ended up going with the ACT2600 and the SBC Kevlar disk.

Too much other stuff going on right now didnt have time to dick around with other setups or go any deeper into this clutch selection. I have faith in Tims advice and experienced input on this setup and it should be all I ever need for my goals.

Soon as it gets here the tranny is getting pulled.

Now I just need to buy new Redline Heavy Shock proof to change my Tcase and rear diff fluid, and a new TOB and Clutch fork... Weres the cheapest, best place to purchase a clutch fork besides the dealer. Is this something Autozone or pepboys or Napa auto would have? Would I want to get it from them?

I know theres also a difference in the TOB's... The true OEM ones are solid metal all the way thru which is the one I want right?

Thanks...

Black_Bullet · Oct 11, 2008

Ok so tranny is off today and I am going to spend the next available time cleaning up some wireing in the engine bay and thoroughly cleaning and painting my transmission and Tcase to spruce things up a bit.

My old clutch setup that I just took off was worn down pretty badly and was on the last threads of its life. I dont even know how it was still driving. I have some pics of today.

Old disk/ PP