On a budget... stage 1 or 2 awd tranny?

[90gst_sean]

I doubt I'm pushing even 300 hp.

Not to sure yet, but I'm leaning toward Jacks.

Less interested in who builds a better transmission, but what stage I should run. If I go stage 2, it'll take every last penny I have!

Should I consider picking up a used 91+ for the build instead of my 90? I've heard there better/easier to build..?

Any thoughts?

[eclipsh]

The 91+ 23 spline transmissions give you more options for upgrades, like the Evo3 1st gear and steeper 5th gear. Of course you'll also need a 23 spline transfer case if you do that.

If you have no big power or racing plans for your car just save your money and do the stage 1. If you plan to do a lot of Track/AutoX/drag racing a steeper 1st gear would sure be nice as the ratio between 1 and 2 sucks.

[90gst_sean]

I'm thinking of running the gvr4 1st gear, but have seen to many threads on gvr4 1st gear failure and issue's with clutch slip ability at launch do to the taller gear.

I don't really want to shell out for the evo gear to salve the strength issue and still be left with launch trouble. How ever, the gsx 1st gear is way to quick and I've not yet made my mind completely on ether these gears. From what I've been able to read, the gvr4 1st will add about 6 mph to the top of 1st gear's shift; a half second.
- gsx 1st (short/strong)= $ for stage2
- gvr4 1st (tall/weakest)= $220 , evo 1st (tallest/strongest)= $380

I'm really thinking I'll push for the stage2 at this point. Unless I really lean to the modded 1st gear, the stage2 will double synchro the gsx 1st, replace some 3-4 components, and give me the 4 spider center diff. Witch I hear is a must for any performance DSM.

QUESTION - Are early dsm's the only tranny's with out the four spider diff, or is this something we all can upgrade to?

QUESTION - Has anyone ever gotten a discount from Jack's Transmission for forum member ship, or price matching of certain components added to a specific build?

I don't see myself building 400hp any time soon, so I wonder what my chances of trashing the gvr4 1st gear really are. I've yet to track my dsm because there's always "something" that needs to be finished; THEN IT'LL BE READY! So I'll say I'm fairly easy on my car... "famous last words, right."

[90gst_sean]

I wondering if I could work a stage 1 (jacks), but add the 4 spider center diff and gvr4 or evo 1st gear for about the same price as the stage 2 $1300.

I'd be sacrificing:

- double synchro 1st
- new 3-4 hub
- new 3-4 slider

I'm not familiar with tranny building. How important is the 3-4 hub and slider?

I imagine the double synchro 1st is more of a longevity upgrade, and with our trannys normally failing the 2nd gear synchro's (1st is next) I may be ok with the stage1 rebuild that comes with a double synchro 2nd and 1st gear singal synchro "double spring" mod that also comes with the stage 1.

Thoughts?

[99gst_racer]

Originally Posted by 90gst_sean

I'm thinking of running the gvr4 1st gear, but have seen to many threads on gvr4 1st gear failure and issue's with clutch slip ability at launch do to the taller gear.

It's not a very strong gear. I wouldn't use it because of that alone. I've seen too many people break first gear within the first few launches; especially on full-weight cars.

Originally Posted by 90gst_sean

I don't really want to shell out for the evo gear to salve the strength issue and still be left with launch trouble. How ever, the gsx 1st gear is way to quick and I've not yet made my mind completely on ether these gears. From what I've been able to read, the gvr4 1st will add about 6 mph to the top of 1st gear's shift; a half second.

Jon @ TRE talked me into the 11% taller first. He claims it's much stronger than the OE 1st gear. I like it so far, but haven't driven on it enough, nor have I even raced the car yet.

Originally Posted by 90gst_sean

I'm really thinking I'll push for the stage2 at this point. Unless I really lean to the modded 1st gear, the stage2 will double synchro the gsx 1st, replace some 3-4 components, and give me the 4 spider center diff. Witch I hear is a must for any performance DSM.

I'm not one to talk about "stages" and I'm not familiar with Jack's company at all, but the basic rebuild that Shep and TRE offer will do just fine for you. It may be more financially beneficial to get the basic rebuild, and then add on other options that you want. Buying "kits" and "stages" are not always the cheaper route.

My TRE rebuild consists of:
- Double syncro 1st-3rd
- 11% taller 1st w/ new input shaft
- Welded center differential
- New 3rd/4th hub & sleeve
And then all of the other Basic rebuild features..... And I only spent $12XX.

Originally Posted by 90gst_sean

QUESTION - Are early dsm's the only tranny's with out the four spider diff, or is this something we all can upgrade to?

It's an upgrade. Our cars only have two spider gears in the center diff, and the upgrade requires you to turn in your usable core for a replacement, machined 4-spider unit. If you can afford it, it's definitely worth the money. If you can't afford it, and/or your core is not usable, you can opt for a welded differential. I have one in my '99 and I love it.

Originally Posted by 90gst_sean

I don't see myself building 400hp any time soon, so I wonder what my chances of trashing the gvr4 1st gear really are.

It's not as much of a torque problem, as much as the drivetrain shock. They just don't like holeshots. Go for the 11% taller gear if you want to replace the OE first gear.

[JackM]

We can work with customers on a budget or that want to change things around a bit with the build. The builds we offer on the site are not set in stone and we can mix things around. Your 90 AWD tranny will be fine with a 4-spider. An 'economy' (stage 1 type) of rebuild with a 4-spider with torrington will run you $1100. That will make for a very nice tranny that will easily hold up to your power goals. An 'economy' (stage 1 type) of rebuild alone will be good enough, but the 4-spider will elliminate that weak link and give you more room later on if you go higher in power. If you want a GVR4 gear, I have good used ones I can just toss in the rebuild for free if you want it. Many don't want the GVR4 1st anymore, so I have a few I would like to get rid of. I am currently out of stock on the EVO III 1st, but have a bunch coming in from over-seas that should be in any week now...

Jack

[90gst_sean]

Thanks a lot Paul, that was great.

Whats your $.02 on the 3-4 hub and slider replacement.

I may go for the:
- Jacks stage 1
- evo +11%/stronger 1st
- four spider center diff

The question will be just how much that's going to cost me.

I'm not attached to Jack transmission for any reason other than the ease of website navigation. I've heard good things about his work, but I've heard good things about all three popular re builder on your forum's.

I may just come down to who has a decent time to turn around, responds to my email, and isn't way more expensive then the others; +/- $150.

Thanks again Paul, that was a great response.

[90gst_sean]

Hello Jack, I didn't see you up there; thanks for popping in. Its this little extra that can make all the difference to some people!

I sent you a PM.

If we work something out, I'm willing to send paypal today to get things rolling.

Sean

[99gst_racer]

Originally Posted by 90gst_sean

Thanks a lot Paul, that was great.

Whats your $.02 on the 3-4 hub and slider replacement.

No problem. I'm glad I could help.

As far as the 3-4 hub and slider replacement, I only had that done because my existing one was worn badly. Keep in mind that when your rebuilder tears into your tranny, there may be other internal parts that need to be replaced other than what comes standard with your desired rebuild. So, until it's apart on a bench being inspected by your rebuilder, you're not really going to be 100% sure how much you're spending.

Another example: Back in '04, when Shep tore town my tranny, he found two of the differential gears were missing teeth and that debris caused damage to the intermediate shaft, which would have otherwise been fine to re-use. That mishap sent me back another $250 on my rebuild.