How much does driving matter

[jonnygsx]

Everyone always says "mods don't matter if you can't drive" but how much does driving really matter. I mean assuming you can launch without spinning the wheels or bogging the rest is cake, gas, clutch, shift, gas. And even on a not so perfect launch how slow are you gonna be... unless you've never driven a stick shift in your life, from a decent launch the only thing that can screw you is missing a gear. From my experience even with a bad launch the most it has ever affected me would possibly be 1 whole second. Am I way off in this or what. (i'm posting this in desperation at my slow e/t's and to find out how bad of a driver I REALLY am)

 

[Vinnie]

Do you have any idea how much 1 sec. is in a 1/4 mile???

1 sec. in the 1/4 mile if you #### up is about 8-10 cars behind the winner.

On the launch, since you have AWD if you don't get less than 2 sec 60 footer it's bad really bad.

So....trust me when they say "mods don't matter if you can't drive" it's true, very true.

Take a look at the 1/4 mile times, there are some guys with upgraded turbos and all the bolt ons, and they can't crack 13's in the 1/4 mile, and then you have those guys with stock turbos and they are doing 13's and 12's. What does that tell you??

Cheers

 

[jabraham]

Good E.T.'s come from a good 60' time. If you can't 60' then you will never run a good E.T. A tenth in the 60' is usually 2 tenths in the 1/8 and 3-4 tenths in the 1/4. This is where the dirving comes into play most. I get faster every time that I go to the track just from getting used to driving the car and improving on my 60'.

 

[GRNDSM]

Good 60' time is essenstial to get good ET. But good shifting is equally as important, especially if you have a big turbo (larger than 16G).

So, yes, without good driving, mods are useless...

Leon
RR

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Originally posted by jabraham
Good E.T.'s come from a good 60' time. If you can't 60' then you will never run a good E.T. A tenth in the 60' is usually 2 tenths in the 1/8 and 3-4 tenths in the 1/4. This is where the dirving comes into play most. I get faster every time that I go to the track just from getting used to driving the car and improving on my 60'.

3-4 tenths in the quarter? no way. 2 tenths in the quarter at best. In fact I can go from a mid 1.7 to a mid 1.5 and only go that two tenths faster. I wonder if its a curve, and the faster you 60 foots get, the less effect it has at the top end. I know the difference between a 1.9 and a 1.7 is huge, but in my experience anything better than a 1.7 will get the job done. 1.5s are fun either way.

At any rate, driving is very important. As Leon said shifting is critical, mostly the 1-2 as far as ET goes. But with big turbos your et and mph will suffer if you cant get boost back fast enough. Back when I had just the exhaust done, better drving got me from consistent 15.0s, to consitent 14.6s, and eventually 14.3 before I started to upgrade the car more. Over about 3 months of racing regularly. Driving/experience is key.

 

[GRNDSM]

>3-4 tenths in the quarter? no way. 2 tenths in the quarter at best. In fact I can go from
>a mid 1.7 to a mid 1.5 and only go that two tenths faster.

Come one , Kevin, you should know better . 60’ time improvement translates into 2-3 times in the E.T. improvement! It is a very known (and proven) rule of thumb!

Now, I just have to figure out how to get my car out of high 1.6’s and into 1.5’s… I am pretty sure that my light flywheel (9lbs Fidenza) is hurting me there. I have not been able to get into low 1.6’s ever since I installed it last fall. In the past, I could do consistent low 1.6’s on a well prepped track.

Leon
RR

 

[mclaren55]

Driving does matter a lot. Example, my friend who use to drive FWD all the time got a Talon a little while ago. I think this was his first trip ever, it has a 50 trim, etc. Anyways, he the best he mustered all day was a 13.9, he got pissed and said "you take it for a rip". I get in, and do a 13.46@101mph. So it did make a huge difference. Driver = the difference between fast, and bloody fast.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
[BCome one , Kevin, you should know better . 60’ time improvement translates into 2-3 times in the E.T. improvement! It is a very known (and proven) rule of thumb! [/B]

Hey, I gave you the 2 times, but 3-4 is out there In my experience anyway. Like I said I've seen the 2 times rule of thumb work down to 1.7. Below that I dont seem to gain as much. I'm also not the worlds fastest shifter, especially with this shyte (newly rebuilt) tranny. This friday I fully intend to flog this car to a mid 11 come hell or high water, so I'll pay attention to the gains from 60's with some more aggressive driving... If I gain 3-4 times going from my typical 1.6s to a 1.5, I'll not only be very surprised, but very happy with the resulting ET I'm sure

 

[jabraham]

Leon,

I say ditch the aluminum flywheel. I tried one with a 6 puck and it lasted 8 passes before melting. Now I have a 9lb paperweight because this thing is trashed. I put the stock flywheel and street disc back in the car and went 10.80 on the first pass with a 1.61 sixty foot. My car is much easier to launch with this setup and much less likely to bog. I don't have to slip the clutch as much to keep the RPM's up coming off the line. I don't notice any difference in how fast the car recovers after shifting either.

 

[pneumo]

A bad driver also won't know at what RPM to shift. Know you car and it's setup, or better yet, get the thing dyno'd so you can see where the shift points should be in each gear. Nailing the 1-2 shift in a fast AWD car is hard because the revs climb so fast, it's easy to bounce off the rev limiter by shifting just a fraction of a second too late.

 

[jonnygsx]

Well as far as launching goes i just got my 2600lbs act w/ organic street disk installed so i'm still learning to launch it. How do you guys do it. I'm attempting to slip it fast enough, but without letting the rpms drop too much. What does your guys rpm drop to after slipping it?

 

[pneumo]

When I do it right the rpms don't drop below 4k. It works for me because I still have a small turbo that puts out full boost well below 4k.

I like to rev to 5500 and do a fast, agressive slip. If the rpm's don't drop that means I slipped too much. I also check for the smell of burning clutch after the run to see if I slipped it too much.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

In my expereince, with a perfect launch rpm wont drop at all. it will stay level at my launch rpm as I'm riding the clutch out, then rise to the rev limiter or the shift. Also, speed will shoot straight up in first, and not drop when I let the clutch out in second (a lot of wheelspin), as seen on the logger. If both of these things are in place, the car will pull a 1.5. Otherwise I'm in the 1.6s... This is also on 17" all season tires. I'm not sure if you want something different with drag radials, but I imagine its the same. In my case I have to slip the clutch a good bit to do this. If I'm doing it right I can just start to smell the clutch when I get back to the lanes. Not real bad, but I know its there. YMMV.

 

[jabraham]

Well, did you flog your car into the mid 11's on Friday or not?

 

[Kevin Jewer]

My best of 11.8 still stands The 2600 (2 weeks old) would slip in every gear if I tried to speed shift second. Short times were in the 1.6s, but it wouldnt let me shift it fast. It seems I'll have to wait for V2 of DSMlink so I can speed shift with a real stutter shift, not the revlimit lowered to 7500 rpm Hopefully that helps the clutch hold. After the shift into second, it takes forever for speed to start to rise again in second, as seen on the logger...

As an extreme example of what driving does, I babied the launch (low 2 second range) and shifted normally. Trapped 117, but ran a 13.3. The car runs 11.8s at 117 with a good launch and decent shifting. Now thats a bizarre situtation since anyone should be at least in the 1.8s with AWD, but you can see the effect it has.

 

[jabraham]

My first pass with the BR580 I had a 2.1 sixty foot and ran a 7.73 @ 105.43 in the 1/8. With a 1.61 sixty foot it went a 6.83 @ 104.68. I have had better sixty foots but something always happens. I had a 1.54 Friday night but for some reason my car doesn't want to go into second now at high rpms. Like I said before with everything else being equal it's all in the first sixty feet. I can't believe your ACT 2600 is slipping. I run the 2900 with street disc and it has never slipped on its own. I have never WOT shifted 1-2 though. I have WOT shifted 2-3 with no slippage. Keep beating on that thing and I'm sure you will get there soon.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Originally posted by jabraham
My first pass with the BR580 I had a 2.1 sixty foot and ran a 7.73 @ 105.43 in the 1/8. With a 1.61 sixty foot it went a 6.83 @ 104.68.

So thats just under double... BTW, 6.8 at 105 in the eigth is damn fast. If I'm not mistaken that should be a 10 second pass? Sweet

 

[jonnygsx]

How do you guys shift??? do you do like a power shift and keep if floored and shift quick? or do you do like me and just let up on the gas, hit the clutch, swap the gears, and floor it again...?

 

[jabraham]

Originally posted by 95GSXracer


So thats just under double... BTW, 6.8 at 105 in the eigth is damn fast. If I'm not mistaken that should be a 10 second pass? Sweet

You're not mistaking. It was a 10.62 @ 130.80. The 7.73 was on a 1/8 mile track a couple of weeks prior.

As for shifting goes, I just shift as fast as I can but I do lift for a split second. I lift, stabb the clutch, and shift all at the same time. It's just as fast as powershifting only easier on the tranny and I lose a little boost. It drops down from 26 to about 19 psi when I shift.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Hmm I'm going to have to try that. I'm not sure my shep rebuild, which has been VERY tight since I got it back, will let me shift fast enough. But I have to try something since I'm sick of waiting for DSMlinks Vs to come out I probably wont be racing again until the SO, but I'll see if I can make that work.