Slower with a 16G and FMIC than 14B =(

[DSM90AWD]

Finally a Friday w/o rain so was able to hit the track for the first time with my FMIC.

Mods: small 16G, RRE FMIC, 2G MAS, 550s, 190Walbro, S-AFC (+10 >5K), ACT2600#, Fidanza FW, 2.5" BR Turbo Back w/Test Pipe.

Running VP110 Leaded:

Run#1 (21psi): horrible 14.4@98 on a 2.3 60' (beat a new EVO VIII though ).

Run#2 (23psi): 13.9 +@99 with a 1.8 60' (lost to a 11sec POS).

Looking at my log from the sewcond run I am getting great timing and little knock so would think with 23psi and my setup would be at least in the low 13s?

Kinda frustrating as my best time to date was a 13.65@99 on my 14B and a 2.5" exhaust

If anyone wants to take a look at my datlog to give insight lemme know.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Just to add...
1) I'd pressure tested the intake to 25psi the night before and remedied any leaks.
2) My compression is 178-180 (seems high for a 7.8:1 pistoned 1G?)
3) Base timing is 5deg BTDC

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

the uped compression is from carbon thats why its high...

 

[DSM90AWD]

Originally posted by DSMeclipse4G63
the uped compression is from carbon thats why its high...

That shouldn't hurt performance though? Maybe increase incidence of knock due to "hotspots".. but my knocksums were very low (0-1) near redline.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

no it shouldnt...unless it were to go up alot more than stock. If I were you I wouldnt worry too much.

 

[jonnygsx]

no idea, i'm having the same problems with my car, went from the t-25 to the 16g and got .5sec slower. Hopefully the 2600lbs act will help...alot.

Good luck to ya..

 

[pneumo]

I think it might be due to the tuning. +10 on the AFC with a 2G MAS and 550 injectors seems a bit rich. Post the logs, or at least the timing, O2 volts and RPM. I'd also reccomend running at 21 psi until the tuning is sorted out, it might knock at 23 psi even with good tuning, 21 psi gives you a little safety margin to play with.

 

[DSM90AWD]

I think you're right. With my 14B I had not fuel control.. hell I didn't even know what my EGTs/Knock were so was prol running on the hairy edge @18psi. With the TMO datalogger, S-AFC and EGT.. I think I got it tuned too conservatively. Really need ot hit an AWD dyno w/ WB O2 to sort it out.

Anyway.. I posted my Run#2 ..but with VP110.. don't think the O2s to be too helpful.

 

[greyforestgst]

the hairy edge is where the power's at

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Mods: small 16G, RRE FMIC, 2G MAS, 550s, 190Walbro, S-AFC (+10 >5K), ACT2600#, Fidanza FW, 2.5" BR Turbo Back w/Test Pipe.

I see your problems already. YOu are running WAY too rich. I had damn near the same setup as you on my FWD, except I had a 255lph pump. Same turbo, injectors, 2G MAS. When I gave up on the car, I was running around -14% across the board on the AFC. Those settings netted me a 12.80@109 on my FWD.

Make sure all your boost leaks are gone, then start with the AFC at 0. The problem lies with your settings. YOu have them set very rich. This makes the ECU think there's a ton of airflow coming into the motor, so it goes into a less aggressive timing map. I bet you aren't getting more than 16-17 deg. timing max. Keep leaning the car out until your O2 values come down to around .82V or so. YOu should be shooting for 20-22 deg. timing at the top of 3rd gear.

The other problem you are going to run into is heatsoak. That FMIC is terrible. One other thing....turn DOWN the boost!!!!! I tried running 22psi w/110 race gas. I couldn't run better than 104-105mph. I turned the boost down to 20psi, set the afc to -14, and first pass out was 109mph. I've run as quick as 113 on the small 16G, but the ET wasn't very good, so I don't credit the mph. The 23psi on a small 16G is WAYYYY out of it's efficiency range, coupled with the fact that you have a FMIC that does a HORRIBLE job of dissipating heat. You are just blowing hot air into the motor. The RRE FMIC is a decent unit for small turbos, due to it's small pressure drop. But as far as cooling goes, not quite up to snuff when trying to run 23psi on that turbo.

Next time out at the track, turn the boost down to 20psi, then slowly keep leaning the car out. Let us know what happens.

Mike

 

[DSM90AWD]

Mike.. thanks for the response

I see your problems already. YOu are running WAY too rich. I had damn near the same setup as you on my FWD, except I had a 255lph pump. Same turbo, injectors, 2G MAS. When I gave up on the car, I was running around -14% across the board on the AFC. Those settings netted me a 12.80@109 on my FWD

Whoa... -14s? What was your base FP? I've mine set at 40psi.

Make sure all your boost leaks are gone, then start with the AFC at 0. The problem lies with your settings. YOu have them set very rich. This makes the ECU think there's a ton of airflow coming into the motor, so it goes into a less aggressive timing map. I bet you aren't getting more than 16-17 deg. timing max. Keep leaning the car out until your O2 values come down to around .82V or so. YOu should be shooting for 20-22 deg. timing at the top of 3rd gear

Actually the LOG from my best run that day (13.9) showed 21-23adv in 3rd and 4th w/little knock.

The other problem you are going to run into is heatsoak. That FMIC is terrible. One other thing....turn DOWN the boost!!!!!

I'd bought this turbo/Intercooler from a local DSMer who'd run as fast as 11.8 with it.. so should get me into the mid-12s (my lofty goal). I was just trying to see if more boost (leaner) would improve my times.

Next time out at the track, turn the boost down to 20psi, then slowly keep leaning the car out. Let us know what happens.

Was at the TurboTrix/BM Tranny Shootout at E-Town Sat. Unfortuantely a buddy broke down on the way so was late and only managed one run. The datalog (which I forgot to save) showed 7-8 counts knock BTW shifts which would then lower to 0-1 by the end of each gear. This was with +8 on the S-AFC on 93oct pump.

I've a few cans of MCCC at home as my compression is still 182-185psi (way high for my 7.8:1s. Maybe I'm battling hotspots with more fuel.. I dunno. .guess we'll see if this helps.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

My base FP was prolly in the 50psi range, since I didn't have an adjustable FPR at the time. I know the 255 bumps it way up there.

I just looked at your logs. I'm surprised you got that much timing advance since you ARE in fact running pig ass rich. It looks like you need to lean it WAY out still. Put it this way, I don't even run .94V on PUMP gas!! My last trip to the track on 110, my O2 values were in the .78V range. With race gas, you can go WAY lean. Like I said, lean it out!! Try to get your O2 values in the low .8x range. Car will run like a raped ape. One other note on your log. Looks like you bogged the hell out of that launch. Dropping all the way down into 28xx rpms, isn't helping your times at all either.

The possibility of your knock coming DOWN as you get higher in the gear is mostly due to rich knock. When you first get into a gear, you have less load on the motor, therefore, you are burning less fuel. You got so much fuel in there, that it's knocking. If you have an EGT gauge, I would bet you are a bit on the warm side.

If you notice your logs, in 3rd gear, your timing increases as time goes on. This is also due to being too rich and getting some rich knock. Remember, timing = power. In order to get more timing, you should lean it out. Bump up your base FP to 45psi or so. This way you can lean it way out! That's what I was able to do. Hell, on my setup, FP Green/660s, my base FP is 45psi. Currently, I run -19 on the AFC on PUMP gas. Good enough for 12.27@113. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

As for 11.8's on that combo, your buddy prolly had a very light car along with some VP C16. With the C16, it's possible to run 23psi on a cool day. Anything less than the C16, ur gonna have some knock issues running that much boost.

Good luck,
Mike