1G: 10.7@127. Fp3052 auto 1g daily driver.

Nate Crisman · 08-09-2012, 06:51 AM

My red 1g made two good passes last night at island Dragway. (remember, no rollbar).

Stock bottom end, stock 2g head & intake cam, stock auto trans & converter. Basically just bolt-on parts, fp3052, and the air/water setup.

Mixed 5 gal of E98 with 3 gallons of 93pump to make a sorta E62 blend (pump/injectors maxed out last time with straight ethanol at only 26psi boost. Adding in some gasoline enabled me to get more effective supply from the walbro 255hp pump/950's.

Will add log/pics/gopro/camcorder video tonight after im home from work.

SBstar · 08-09-2012, 06:59 AM

Not a 14b or 16g so don't care...

Jkin, Nice work Nate! Something tells me a 10 second DD would be kind of fun.

GRAVEDIGGER · 08-09-2012, 07:04 AM

You're always doing so much with so little Nate.

I have to say that I envy you quite a bit for your ability to get down and dirty with the best of them with what are pretty simple setups. Nice work my friend!

Steve93Talon · 08-09-2012, 07:24 AM

Nice job! How much boost? What exhaust cam? Still on the EVO3 intake mani? How much boost do you launch with and how long does it take to spool it at the line? Any idea what it weighs?

dexterholland04 · 08-09-2012, 07:35 AM

Nice job, Nate! Every time I see how easy it is to go fast with an auto car it makes me want to convert...so I could run 9.80's and make it seem stupid easy! I'm looking forward to seeing you do even more with this setup.

burkgonzo · 08-09-2012, 07:37 AM

Holly crap, have you dynoed on that setup?

Nate Crisman · 08-09-2012, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve93Talon

Nice job! How much boost? What exhaust cam? Still on the EVO3 intake mani? How much boost do you launch with and how long does it take to spool it at the line? Any idea what it weighs?

30psi on the 10.8. 32psi on the 10.7. (target at least)

Evo3 intake manifold, his 272 exhaust cam, launch right at 20psi&4050rpm. Takes about 7 seconds to get to launch rpm/boost.

Weight: I guess about 2850 + 240 (big driver). 1992 awd auto w/ 280lb of weight loss + the liquid ic system adds weight. Also had 9 gallons of fuel this time

GDNF2ET · 08-09-2012, 08:21 AM

Big congrats Nate !!

Nate Crisman · 08-09-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burkgonzo

Holly crap, have you dynoed on that setup?

Never dyno my cars, as all previous dyno trips in many years past resulted in blown up parts. I'm superstitious.

Dsmlink estimates 420whp

Rs AWD · 08-09-2012, 09:15 AM

wow Nate amazing job. that is crazy..

alex209 · 08-09-2012, 09:36 AM

Wow congrats the car a beast

warp9 · 08-10-2012, 02:44 AM

Congrats Nate! We got pretty close setups and the times are nearly identical

ALynch · 08-10-2012, 04:20 AM

Congrats! Very impressive!

autotalon · 08-10-2012, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Crisman

Dsmlink estimates 420whp

sounds about right. 400 whp should be good for a 10 sec. pass in an auto.

congrats on the great pass!

forcefed86 · 08-10-2012, 08:18 AM

Congrats!

E50 is some pretty amazing stuff. I believe Cuzco ran his 9:1 setup at 43psi on a BW S366 using e50.

They actually have it at the Blender pumps here in KS. I'm still on factory fuel lines 94lb delphi's and 1 supra TT pump. Pushed the hx40 to 34 psi so far.

11secDSM · 08-10-2012, 09:07 AM

Great job Nate!

slowgsr · 08-10-2012, 09:23 AM

Nice pass!

94awdcoupe · 08-10-2012, 09:32 PM

3052 seems great match for stock auto setup...

what intake cam? what size tires? what was trap rpm?

Nate Crisman · 08-11-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94awdcoupe

3052 seems great match for stock auto setup...

what intake cam? what size tires? what was trap rpm?

Stock 2g intake cam from a 1995 talon.
tires are Mickey Thompson ET Drag 24.5x8x15" on Volk CE28N 15x7's
8200rpm through the traps at 127mph in 3rd gear. stock converter.

comparing logs of the exact same setup with BR20g vs the FP3052: They spool nearly identical on the converter with matching RPM vs Boost curves, BUT the FP3052 will do is quicker! The 3052 will go from 2000rpm/0psi up to 4000rpm/20psi in only 5.6 seconds, while the BR20g took nearly 7.5 seconds to hit the same rpm/boost. The ball bearing FP3052 just comes on quicker once it gets to the 7-8psi range and you can see the slope of the map sensor line on the log increasing, while the 20g is more "flat" looking. The 20G was only good for about 43lb/min of airflow with the boost maxed out, while the 3052 puts out 54+lb/min by my logs (and traps nearly 10mph faster).

Huge power gain w/ better spool...the ball bearing GT3076 was a huge win/win compared to the old school 20g w/ clipped turbine wheel.

Steve93Talon · 08-11-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Crisman

comparing logs of the exact same setup with BR20g vs the FP3052: They spool nearly identical on the converter with matching RPM vs Boost curves, BUT the FP3052 will do is quicker! The 3052 will go from 2000rpm/0psi up to 4000rpm/20psi in only 5.6 seconds, while the BR20g took nearly 7.5 seconds to hit the same rpm/boost. The ball bearing FP3052 just comes on quicker once it gets to the 7-8psi range and you can see the slope of the map sensor line on the log increasing, while the 20g is more "flat" looking. The 20G was only good for about 43lb/min of airflow with the boost maxed out, while the 3052 puts out 54+lb/min by my logs (and traps nearly 10mph faster).

Huge power gain w/ better spool...the ball bearing GT3076 was a huge win/win compared to the old school 20g w/ clipped turbine wheel.

Interesting data. A friend of mine is building a '94 AWD auto, coming from a '92 5spd car with an EVO3 16g. He wants something that'll give him more power up top but still spool well on the stock converter. I'm thinking an HTA76 in the FP housing might be just the ticket.

Nate Crisman · 09-15-2012, 09:06 AM

I took the car to island last night just to screw around and beat up on a few buddies with fancy new cars (shelby 500, Mercedes v8 compressor, and a hopped up new camaro...they all ran 13's).

Drove to it to/from the track with no tools or spare parts...kinda winging it. 16" wheels and old Kuhmo asx all season 205/55/16 Made one run on my pumpgas/street settings... It doesn't want to spool up on the converter at all with 93 gasoline! Wtf. 12.2@111 with a 1.7. I think boost was about 22psi.

Put in 5 gal of e98 to mix with out 4-5 gal of pumpgas left in the tank. Loaded the tune files from last time at track:

11.2@103 on a 1.66. Left at about 15psi. CAS plug pipped off at 900ft or so and engine stalled in 3rd gear.

10.99@127 on a 1.7. Spun off line and I lifted throttle right off the line. Ran clean to the traps, no issues other than starting line traction. Boost was 32-33psi.

GDNF2ET · 09-15-2012, 12:27 PM

I don't see how the fuel would effect the stall that much..Could the tune files you loaded from your last outing have more to do with it? Maybe your converter is wearing out and becoming inconsistent..
Great day of racing, no breakage and 10s again !!

Nate Crisman · 09-16-2012, 10:00 AM

I'll post both logs w/ imbedded tune files and everyone can be the judge.

Here are the two logs from fridays first and last pass.

First run was on straight 93 octane sunoco pump gas and my everyday street tune settings, it went 12.2@111 and 1.7 launch. Very "bland" pass. Took 15 seconds to go from the converters flash rpm of 2200 at 0boost and initial wot to the launch at 3800rpm/17psi. 15 seconds.

Third run was the 10.99@127. I put in 5 gallons of E98 to mix with the remaining pump gas in the tank...lets call it E60 for the sake of argument (maybe as good as E75..who knows). I loaded last weeks tune, which the changes are mostly global fuel adjustment, boost control for 33psi, and I think a couple degrees more timing up on boost. Measuring the time the same method as before: 5.7 seconds to get from 2200rpm/0psi initial flash up to the same 3800rpm/17psi (although I held it back for about .4 seconds more to actually leave at about 4000rpm/20psi for a total of 6.1 seconds on the converter.

That's a gigantic difference in spool up on the converter. On that first run I was literally still on the starting line spooling up when the other car was going through the traps! Its like this all the time on the street too with 93 pump gas, in that its just very lazy on the converter.

You guys are welcome to try and pick apart the two tune files to find differences that would effect spool up on the converter.

warp9 · 09-16-2012, 02:37 PM

I took a real quick peek at the tune and I would try running the same settings at 3500 and maybe even 4000 on the Boost/WGS tab to see if that helps. Also could it be runner leaner on your corn map down low than on pump causing for quicker spool..check your A/F while stalling on both fuels. In the end corn juice has magical properties..lol

Nate Crisman · 09-16-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warp9

I took a real quick peek at the tune and I would try running the same settings at 3500 and maybe even 4000 on the Boost/WGS tab to see if that helps. Also could it be runner leaner on your corn map down low than on pump causing for quicker spool..check your A/F while stalling on both fuels. In the end corn juice has magical properties..lol

Remember, the boost control solenoid is locked at 100% until 18.6psi, the boost control maps don't have any effect on the converter until the last split second before launch.

Afr on pumpgas was actually closer to the target than the e60 run (mostly due to the global being an in exact match to the actual unknown ethanol/gasoline ratio).

As a side note, when I had both 272 cams in and the 20g turbo I was testing all kinda of changes to timing and fuel at 2000-3500rpm when using to improve the spool on the converter with almost nothing for change in response. Like AFR swings from 13.0 to 9.5 and timing from 0* advance up to like 25* advance.. "tuning" changes don't have much effect on spool/converter as far as my experience shows. (compared to hard mechanical changes like cam choice/turbo size/displacement/compression).

A couple degrees of ignition timing or a point of AFR isn't causing ten seconds of additional time to stall to the same boost/rpm.

I still have 8+ gallons of the mixed fuel in the tank. Will set the ignition and boost control maps to exactly the same as the pumpgas map AND try to equalize actual AFR and then do a back to back spool test to compare. Then when the ally mix fuel is all spent, I'll retest on the street again with straight 93 pumpgas.

Then I'll know without. Doubt if its magical powers of ethanol!!

My1GLaser · 09-16-2012, 06:37 PM

I would definitely say the ethanol is making the spool difference. I run 60% E-85 on my setup and when I put pump gas in and drive the couple miles to my house to blend in the E-85 the car starts to get really lazy on spool up. I normally hit 35 psi on my HX35 by 4200, and I doubt I could do that on pump gas! I have never run just pump on this turbo and detuned my car to compare, but now I'm tempted...

warp9 · 09-17-2012, 04:03 PM

Good info Nate. I havent tried 93 oct since I was on the 16g so I wouldnt know its effects on spool with a larger turbo.

You running dual flex plates yet on your setup? I just found the limit to the single stocker today..ugh

Nate Crisman · 09-17-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warp9

Good info Nate. I havent tried 93 oct since I was on the 16g so I wouldnt know its effects on spool with a larger turbo.

You running dual flex plates yet on your setup? I just found the limit to the single stocker today..ugh

Ugh. Broken plate sucks! I'm running stacked stock plates.

-red97rum- · 09-17-2012, 05:01 PM

Stock untouched converter? What fluid are you using? I've noticed as my trans temps get higher the converter tends to stall up a little easier. I attribute it to the fluid thinning a little as it warms up.

Great passes as usual Nate! Nice and simple setup, that's exactly how I like my car to be

Nate Crisman · 09-18-2012, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -red97rum-

Stock untouched converter? What fluid are you using? I've noticed as my trans temps get higher the converter tends to stall up a little easier. I attribute it to the fluid thinning a little as it warms up.

Great passes as usual Nate! Nice and simple setup, that's exactly how I like my car to be

Converter and trans are the original oem untouched parts the car was built with in 92. Only trans mod is welding the center diff for strength.

Trans fluid is napa-sourced generic synthetic. It's nothing special at all. Same fluid in it since the beginning. I drove the car home from work then right to the track, through tech, and then made passes. Trans fluid should have been plenty hot after an hour of driving and street beating on it. I have a hard time seeing trans fluid temp making any significant difference, as previous days I have trailered the car to the track and my first pass with cold trans fluid stalls up just like normal (always been on alky though).

Did you guys look at the log? 15 seconds vs 6 seconds!