Head O-ringing Shop

[ypnas777]

Who do you guys recommend I send in a head to for o-ringing service?

I plan on running a composite hg so I know SS o-rings are best with a protrusion of .013.

Thanks

 

[BogusSVO]

Give Jackson Auto Machine a call. (JAM)

They are a supporting vendor.

 

[viperlp01]

Or just run a permatorque headgasket. Brent Rau made est. 1400hp with no o-rings

 

[BogusSVO]

Viper, are you installing O rings yet?

 

[viperlp01]

Decided against it after doing some research and realizing the proper way to do it is with a receiver groove and a dead soft head gasket. The permatorque head gasket has 3 orings(fire rings) and was designed to be able to handle huge amounts of cylinder pressure.

 

[JacksonAuto]

Decided against it after doing some research and realizing the proper way to do it is with a receiver groove and a dead soft head gasket. The permatorque head gasket has 3 orings(fire rings) and was designed to be able to handle huge amounts of cylinder pressure.

Oh boy, don't say that publicly unless you're ready for an argument from the backyard gang!

 

[viperlp01]

Haha Should I delete it?

 

[JacksonAuto]

Nah, it's correct information and ultimately that's what the forum is for.

 

[viperlp01]

Nah, it's correct information and ultimately that's what the forum is for.

Too often it is filled with information that is either false and no one knows enough to argue. FWIW we decided to not buy the machinery to do the small bores of the 4g63 because of this.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Or just run a permatorque headgasket. Brent Rau made est. 1400hp with no o-rings

Agreed. O-ringing for permatorque gaskets is over hyped and not necessary.

 

[viperlp01]

The permatorque is an MLS headgasket. I think you meant to say o-ringing.

 

[ypnas777]

Or just run a permatorque headgasket. Brent Rau made est. 1400hp with no o-rings

Going to go this route after giving JAM a call

 

[viperlp01]

Good choice and good information from a legit shop!!

 

[BogusSVO]

Going to go this route after giving JAM a call

Good choice and good information from a legit shop!!

I agree with the Viper!


How can you go wrong when two other shop tell you to contact them?

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

The permatorque is an MLS headgasket. I think you meant to say o-ringing.

Yes i did. My mistake i'll correct that.

 

[JacksonAuto]

We are all here to work together.

 

[rr06rs]

Decided against it after doing some research and realizing the proper way to do it is with a receiver groove and a dead soft head gasket. The permatorque head gasket has 3 orings(fire rings) and was designed to be able to handle huge amounts of cylinder pressure.

I've heard mixed reviews of these? Is this what you're using, I'm assuming?

 

[viperlp01]

I will be using one. I ran an OEM MLS forever. We will see how it goes but that HG has been used one some seriously high power engines for a while and seems to work well.

 

[rr06rs]

So when you refer to the proper way being with a receiver groove, I'm assuming you're refering to BOTH the head and block having receiver grooves with the oring pressed in one of them and the opposite surface "receiving" the protruding remainder of the oring, correct? Or are you just refering to one or the other having a receiver groove to hold the orings and the other surface being flat, like most do? Also, I could see the first being the case with steel orings and composite or even copper gaskets, but what about mls gaskets with copper rings?

 

[viperlp01]

Your first statement is correct. What happens to copper when you crush it? Then take a head that is flexing and moving(heat). It does nothing... So you run a SS o-ring with X amount of protrusion with a composite head gasket. For it to even help it needs to be outside the fire/sealing ring of the composite head gasket. So now you added a ring outside the original fire ring.... So what. If you compromise the inside sealing ring your in deep shit as it is. It will continue to damage the headgasket.

 

[JacksonAuto]

So when you refer to the proper way being with a receiver groove, I'm assuming you're refering to BOTH the head and block having receiver grooves with the oring pressed in one of them and the opposite surface "receiving" the protruding remainder of the oring, correct? Or are you just refering to one or the other having a receiver groove to hold the orings and the other surface being flat, like most do? Also, I could see the first being the case with steel orings and composite or even copper gaskets, but what about mls gaskets with copper rings?

Correct. One side gets a stainless ring, the other just a groove to "receive" the ring and gasket.

Copper rings are worthless. They will compress when the fasteners are torqued and it would be like they're not even there.

Use a dead soft copper gasket which will conform to the ring and become embedded in the receiver groove.

Other types of gaskets will seal with o-rings, kinda. Most gaskets have a fire ring built in. This will interfere with the o-ring. Also, gaskets are designed to be fully compressed. An o-ring protruding 10-20 thousandths proud of the deck will not let the gasket compress. Clamping loads will be concentrated on the rings.

 

[honduraneclipse]

Bringing this subject back from the dead, to give my personnal experience on O-ring block situation. I decided to go with a copper O-ring with NO receiver groove and mated it with a cometic head gasket. The worst decision I have ever made, 150 miles later the headgasket is blown and oil is mixing with coolant spilling it out the tailpipe! I never romped on the car, and it never overheated.