Valve Spring selection

[90tsiPA]

So I have a few questions on a few different cam and spring options I have.
Currently I own HKS 272's and Crower springs and Ti retainers nothing is installed yet. I've been having second thoughts and was thinking about selling everything and going with Delta K272's and either FP beehives or GSC beehives with evo 8 retainers.

Are either of these beehives good enough for K272's and which would be more appropriate?

Are the stock aluminum retainers going to be good enough for the k272s?

Do I reuse the stock dsm valve seats or do I need the evo valve seats?

I've been all over the place looking for answers so some insight on this stuff would be awesome.

 

[BogusSVO]

I have not seen the specs on the FP or the GSC behives

Of what I have read/studied/used With the kelford or the Delta K clones.. kiggley or Ferrea behives.. ( I was just told in another thread that one person is running K cams on stock springs) I perfer the Ferrea spring due to there taller installed spring heoght and stiffer spring rate.

here is alot of spring info....
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html

As far as the retainers, alot of speed shops back in the 60's-70's used alum retainers, but they had to be replaced often due to the spring digging into the soft alum retainers and causing them to fail from the higher spring pressures used with big cams.

if using any springs other than what was designed to be used with the alum retainer, I would use a moly/steel/or Ti retainer

 

[90tsiPA]

Well on kelford's site they list their own beehive's to be used with up to kelford 280's but they don't give any specs on anything its getting frustrating.. Well tomorrow I'm helping my buddy put fp springs with stock retainers in his evo 9 and he is also installing kelford 272's. So this is kinda a feeler for if he is going to be good as well as for my soon to be setup.

 

[herms99gst]

I personally have manley valvesprings and ti retainers and will be purchasing the delta k272's. I only plan on reving my motor to 8500-8700 rpm and that will be only at the track.

O.D 1.160-.870
ID 865"/.660
Seat Pressure- 104 @ 1.580
Open Pressure- 237 @ 1.210" 269 @ 1.120"
Stock/Max Lift- 0.370"-0.460"
Coil Bind- 359


heres the website if your interested. Ive heard a lot of people say good things bout this company and i know they have been around for a long time. Manley Performance - Sport Compact - Mitsubishi - 4G63 / 4G64
Ive read several post on how the kelfords are a extremely agressive 272 and are purpose built for crazy top end? And im not a spring are cam guru im just going on what i have read and questions i have asked over the past 6 months. Honestly as dumb as it sound this was the hardest desc. i have had to make.....selecting my cams and springs.

 

[BogusSVO]

Well on kelford's site they list their own beehive's to be used with up to kelford 280's but they don't give any specs on anything its getting frustrating.. Well tomorrow I'm helping my buddy put fp springs with stock retainers in his evo 9 and he is also installing kelford 272's. So this is kinda a feeler for if he is going to be good as well as for my soon to be setup.

I wish you both the best of luck with your chosen spring package.

Keep us posted! I really like to hear how the set up works/pulls/revs/ and lasts.

If you will, if it is not already at this time, post the spring spec card!

 

[90tsiPA]

Well I did some research and it looks like the kelfords take nearly any aftermarket beehive with evo retainers to the edge but should work fine. This is what I found.

I spoke to someone (can't think of his name) from forced performance and gave him the run down of what I was working with. Lets just say he was not into me bringing up the use of kelfords But after telling him what the lift of the cams he said that the forced performance beehives should work fine with them. He also told me that he's never had and issues with the factory evo valve retainers only factory evo valvesprings with use of higher lift cam and higher rpms the valve broke but only after tens of thousands of miles. This was reassuring. I summed up the conversation letting me know that the spring seats on the bottom of the springs are the same for the evo and dsm.

After gathering the most info I could from fp's site and GSC's site and kelford's site I headed down to my local machine shop to bounce some info off my machinist's head.

He checked out the cam card and the spring specs and he said the rates that gsc gave should be more than enough to handle the .433" of lift the kelfords have. With a coil bind at .600" but we were confused why fp rated their similar beehives to just .450" of lift when the seat pressure was actually more than gsc.

Else where on fp they mention that with the factory aluminum retainer is rather long and can only achieve .445" before hitting the valve seal on an evo head. This leads me to believe the dsm valve seal may have slightly more clearance to get .450" of max lift with the evo retainers? I'm not sure.

So in summary it looks like either gsc or fp valve springs with evo retainers should be just good enough to get the job done with the kelford 272's. I wish fp would give a full spring description with rates but they don't so i just had to assume that the coil bind and compressed spring rates are similar between the two. Using a different retainer can get even more out of these springs.

So I'll be helping install the fp's and kelford 272's in an evo 9 tomorrow and see how everything fairs.

Here is the info that FP and GSC gave
GSC
Spring Pressures :
Seat @ 1.56"=68 lbs / .300"=160lbs / .400"=190lbs / .450"=210lbs / .600"= CB

FP
"Due to the very tall aluminum retainers used by the factory, valve lift with the factory retainers is limited to ~.445" max otherwise the valve seal will be damaged by contact with the bottom of the retainer."
Specs:
75 lbs @ 1.575"/40mm
253 lb/in spring rate
up to .450"/11.4mm maximum lift @ 1.575" installed height
Natural frequency of 655.6 Hz

 

[danl]

You need to use what your cam manufacturer recommends. If they can't supply you with the correct accompanying valvetrain parts you need to find another cam manufacturer.

 

[herms99gst]

before i purchased the manleys i had the fp's already ordered and on their way...so i thought . Be sure and ask them if they have the retainers n stock. I waited 3 weeks b4 i called and they said that the evo retainers were on back order....fyi

 

[90tsiPA]

So my friend with his evo 9 finally got his car tuned today and we had no troubles at all with the valve spring and cam selection.. Not to mention his car made great power with the kelfords. I'm sold on this setup. I can't wait to get my car together.

 

[e85_4g63]

I know this is an old thread. From reading over it, it seems to me that the FP beehive kit with the stock EVO 8 (or 9) aluminum retainers will work with the K272 cams. I also see using the stock DSM valve seats is ok. Does anyone have an update on using this combo?