Oil in Exhaust Port After New Head Install

[mjboehm]

I had head rebuilt with supertech bronze valve guides, super tech valves and supertech guide seals. The motor has about 300 miles on the bottom end.I used arp heads studs with a mitsu 4 layer metal hg(i was told to use copper spray).I did a compression test on the car before I started it. The compression was 175-178-178-180. So I started the car and grey smoke started pouring out of the exhaust. I took off the turbo manifold and noticed oil coming out of the exhaust ports. Also the turbo is new. The car never burned oil when it was first built. Is it possible that the oil is being pushed through the layers of the metal hg? Any help or suggestions would be great.

 

[Dewayne Waldron]

Damn, did the shop the built your head forget the valve stem seals?

 

[mjboehm]

Nope their in the head. I am not sure what is causing this.

 

[asrdave]

this has been covered before... there are oil galleys where some of the exhaust studs are ... all you need to do is copper silicone on some of the threads of the exhaust studs ... i think that may be where your problem is

 

[mjboehm]

Thanks for that info. I will try that out see what hapopens.

 

[Dewayne Waldron]

If that is the case then why is the oil puddling in the ports ? Shouldn't it be running down the head from the studs ? I see no inication of oil around the studs in the picture.

 

[TSIfreek]

Looks to me you need new valve guides and seals.

 

[mjboehm]

They are brand new.

Also these pictures were taken after I cleaned(w/ break clean) some of the oil off the block. I am going to double check the torque on the bolts on the headstuds.Is it possible to have good compression and have the oil leak through the hg?

 

[rlacasse1]

I doubt it is the studs becuase you have oil coming from your ports. It must be the valve seals and guides. did the machine shop mess it up.

 

[mjboehm]

I hope he didn't I called him he is supposed to come check it out. All he does is cylinder heads and also he build heads for different races teams. I think I am leaning towrads the metal hg didn't seal correctly around the oil ports.

 

[rlacasse1]

That is alot of oil to be coming from the head gasket and whats more it wouldn't be just oil. Coolant would also be leaking.

 

[mjboehm]

I didn't put any coolant in the car it ran for about 10 seconds then I shut it off. I wanted to see if it was going to smoke or not. If it didn't smoke I would have put some in the car.

 

[romeen]

As others have mentioned I suspect the valve stem seals.

Shine a light at an upwards angle towards the roof of the port and see if the valve stems are wet with oil.

 

[Dewayne Waldron]

It is a possibility that the head gasket didn't seat properly but I'm still leaning towards the valve stem seals because of your compression. If not properly installed they can cause a mess.

 

[mjboehm]

I will try looking at them tonight. Thanks for all the help.

 

[mjboehm]

I looked at the valve stems seals. They seemed to be installed correctly. I didn't see any cuts or anything on them. The ports were wet so it was kinda of hard to tell where the oil is coming from. I didn't see any oil in the cylinders. Is it possible to run this car without the turbo manifold connected to it?

 

[BogusSVO]

I doubt its the fault of the HG, thre is only one oil feed at the corner of the head.

if they are the cheap black valve seals would cause it, the Blue Viton seals seem to work the best.

also I know you put new bronze guides in the head, what clearance did the shop use? (stem to guide)

also most good head builders lube the stems up a bit, so the head willcause smoke for a bit till its run and the excissive lube is burt off (about 10-15 mins)

there is only a few ways that oil can get into the ports....
bad valve stem seas/worn guides
rings not seating properly and pumping oil into the exhaust
too much oil pressure to the turbo, and it blowing out thu the seals
(maybe a kinked oil return line from the turbo )

If your holding compression, then the oil return from the head is counted out since it is gravity returned.


I would say bolt it all back together, bring it up to op temp, and go drive it (no boost) for about 10-15 mins and then let cool and check it again

 

[mjboehm]

I noticed that the vavle guides were lubed up alot. I could see the red grease on the valves through the exhust ports. Also i used the blue viton seals.Both lines for the turbo are braided steel lines. The turbo is new. My question then if the valve were lubed up quite a bit would that allow oil to get around the valve.I will try running it to see if that helps.

 

[BogusSVO]

no the oil would work as a moving seal to keep oil out then.... what you are seing then *MIGHT* be just the lube being melted and being burnt off , then a thin sheen of oil will be replacing it

 

[TSIfreek]

I dont see how the turbo can be the cause as that much oil would not find its way back up into the exhaust ports it would be burned in the turbo exhaust housing. Thats alot of oil it should be dry in the exhaust ports.
The only 2 areas I can see being the problem are the piston rings not sealing or the valve guide clearance is to loose at this point as you said you have new seals.
How do the spark plugs look? If they are oily as well I would look into piston ring sealing problem as in excessive piston to wall clearance or the hone was done improperly.
At this point I would think about pulling the head off and have the valve to guide clearance verified.

 

[BogusSVO]

any update?

 

[mjboehm]

I am going to do a leak down test tongiht or tomorrow night when I get off of work. Then I will post the results of what I find.

 

[sawnuoff]

I had just done some spring and retainers of the same brand on a cylinder head ,minus the guides, for a guy about 6 months ago. He decided to do a rebuild this winter and wanted me to freshen up the head with some new seals. Well after disassembly I went to pull out exhaust valves and some of the seals were not even pressed on the guides anymore and they metal jacket on the seals were polished up. I believe the seals are on the edge of being to big O.D. and are getting caught by the inner spring and pulled them off, there were only 3 or 4 like this. I hadn't been able to find any seals by size that are smaller yet. But MAP seals some seals for these spring and they are 2 different seals for intake and exhaust but same O.D. , just a different color for intakes. I was wondering if anyone else had ever incountered this, like to know if that is your issue.

I put a picture of them in my gallery you can go there and see what I am talking about.

 

[mjboehm]

Still waiting to do the leak down test haven't had time. I will update when test is complete.

 

[sawnuoff]

A leak check of the cylinders isn't going to tell you anything about the oil rings. You did a compression check and that all looked good from your numbers. If you have access to a bore scope you might be able to look in the cylinder with the piston down and see if you see any scaring on the walls, seen that befor. Oil ring was folded up on the side of the piston. But if the bottom end was fine before the head work I would start there.