Will 272's work on N/T motor

[ibspoolin2]

im building a head for my N/T 4g63 and im look to get cams for it well i was looking to get 272's for it but the just seen to be for turbo motors. will the work? and if they do would they give it alot of power? Thanks

 

[90laserRSfwd]

Yes they will work (if you mean work as in fit into the head), as for power, I don't think you'll be flowing anywhere near enough air without a turbo to make good use of them.

 

[ibspoolin2]

what kind of cams would you recomend. because i am building a fully built head now.

 

[spinz4]

I only know of one person that has done this and the only thing I noticed was that it sounded good. You will have to dig hard to find any other info as you are only the second person I have seen ask about this.

 

[dnhieu]

i "hear" people are putting stock turbo cams in n/a to get a little more power...

 

[Blindsey]

what kind of cams would you recomend. because i am building a fully built head now.

I would say sell the N/t and buy a turbo model. That is my recommendation.

 

[ibspoolin2]

I would say sell the N/t and buy a turbo model. That is my recommendation.

thanks but im shotting for the fastest N/t record

 

[bastarddsm]

yes they will work in your motor! However you will need bigger cams than that. You should look into 288's You have a small motor, the easiest way to get big power out of a small motor is spin it really high. IF you recall HP = trg*RPM/5252. So you can see that if you double the rpm that your torque band is in you effectively double your horsepower, even if it only makes the same torque. This is how hondas make such huge amounts of hp out of there little motors.

How ever don't expect to bolt big cams in a stock longblock and make power. You need to increase the static compression as well. With the increased duration and overlap at lower rpms your ve will be terrible, and the engine won't make shit for power

If you honestly want to go fast in a n/t 1g your going to need the following
2.1 destroker This will let you rev to 10k, however I'm not sure that we have the head/cam technology to make power up there n/t

or:

2.3/2.4 stroker This will work better with out heads, cams, transmissions. It makes it's power at a lower RPM, it will also be more street worthy.

and:

at least 288 cams, and the supporting hardware. Including adj. cam gears that way you can dial in some overlap to make top end power.

High Compression. at least 11:1, with our heads 12:1 shouldn't even be a problem on pumpgas

A really good ported head.

Individual Tbody's something like this TWM Induction - Throttle Bodies (805) 967-9478

Megasquirt setup for alpha n

A transmission that will shift at 10k, probably with n/t gearing.

Stock rods and crank should be fine.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

what kind of cams would you recomend. because i am building a fully built head now.

I assume this was directed towards me. I would say if your serious about building a non turbo motor, to call up the guys over at Crower (or Brian Crower), or whatever they're calling themselves these days, and let them do a set of custom ground sticks for you!

 

[Marc91GSX]

yes they will work in your motor! However you will need bigger cams than that. You should look into 288's You have a small motor, the easiest way to get big power out of a small motor is spin it really high. IF you recall HP = trg*RPM/5252. So you can see that if you double the rpm that your torque band is in you effectively double your horsepower, even if it only makes the same torque. This is how hondas make such huge amounts of hp out of there little motors.

How ever don't expect to bolt big cams in a stock longblock and make power. You need to increase the static compression as well. With the increased duration and overlap at lower rpms your ve will be terrible, and the engine won't make shit for power

If you honestly want to go fast in a n/t 1g your going to need the following
2.1 destroker This will let you rev to 10k, however I'm not sure that we have the head/cam technology to make power up there n/t

or:

2.3/2.4 stroker This will work better with out heads, cams, transmissions. It makes it's power at a lower RPM, it will also be more street worthy.

and:

at least 288 cams, and the supporting hardware. Including adj. cam gears that way you can dial in some overlap to make top end power.

High Compression. at least 11:1, with our heads 12:1 shouldn't even be a problem on pumpgas

A really good ported head.

Individual Tbody's something like this TWM Induction - Throttle Bodies (805) 967-9478

Megasquirt setup for alpha n

A transmission that will shift at 10k, probably with n/t gearing.

Stock rods and crank should be fine.

While you make your argument elegantly, most of what you said is entertaining.

1) Making an engine turn more rpms does not make it produce more power. Why do you think engines have peaks in their power that are well below what the engine can actually turn.

2) Yes the head is just as capable of making power up high N/A or boosted.

The KISS answer would be that yes you can use those cams on your engine but there are so many other mods needed for those cams to work efficiently in your car that I would probably go with something a little smaller. I would also increase the displacement of the engine because an engine is just a glorified air pump. The more volume in the cylinders then theoretically the more air you can move.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

I would also increase the displacement of the engine because an engine is just a glorified air pump. The more volume in the cylinders then theoretically the more air you can move.

If this is true, then the faster you can make said "air pump" work, the more volume it can move in total. What normally limits a cars power in the upper rev ranges is it's capabilities to suck in said amounts of air (or force it in with a turbo). If you port the hell out of the head and make sure there are no restrictions with the intake manifold, and add higher compression pistons, then there shouldn't be any problems with revving higher and making power.

 

[92awddsm]

While you make your argument elegantly, most of what you said is entertaining.

1) Making an engine turn more rpms does not make it produce more power. Why do you think engines have peaks in their power that are well below what the engine can actually turn.

2) Yes the head is just as capable of making power up high N/A or boosted.

The KISS answer would be that yes you can use those cams on your engine but there are so many other mods needed for those cams to work efficiently in your car that I would probably go with something a little smaller. I would also increase the displacement of the engine because an engine is just a glorified air pump. The more volume in the cylinders then theoretically the more air you can move.

You are comparing apples to oranges. You are looking at peaks on a turbo engine which will reach a peak and fall before it reaches a particular rpm range. This is based on airflow from the turbo or basically, the turbo running out of flow or efficiency. Remove the forced induction and the engine will still be pulling air further into the rpm range, granted it will be less overall airflow than a turbo can produce. In most built n/t applications, power range exceeds usable rpm range. The bigger cams will help the air flow better in high rpm but I dont think a turbo cam will do the job. I would research or find a cam manufacturer that can build a custom, n/t grind to suit your needs. If you are set on 272's or already have them, they will work but not optimally.

 

[Hideki]

I'm not sure if they'll make power, but I've heard an NT with 272's and it sounded badass

 

[kahl23]

I always thought that there were fundamental differences in turbo and N/A grind cams, something about turbo cams have more valve overlap because the pressurized air can force exhaust gasses out of the exhaust valves. I would look into getting a N/A grind if you can scare one up, that would probably be better for you than an agressive turbo grind.

 

[jrohner]

Give the Brian Crower company a call and talk to a tech. You will want a lot of lift to get the most flow. I would think bigger than 272's like 280's or 288 with adjustable cam gears might just do the trick. I would go E85 and 14:1 compression or so. 4g63's aren't the best choice for NA power -- having more stroke than bore. I would go with the 2.4 instead, and if you want to keep the displacement down, use a 2.0 or 1.6 crank. Definitely have the head CNC ported, for sure don't try do it port it yourself.

You will have problems beating anyone with a 16g and a stock engine unless you really strip the car down to lighten it A LOT.

 

[dnhieu]

I always thought that there were fundamental differences in turbo and N/A grind cams, something about turbo cams have more valve overlap because the pressurized air can force exhaust gasses out of the exhaust valves. I would look into getting a N/A grind if you can scare one up, that would probably be better for you than an agressive turbo grind.

i was thinking this after i made my above post. they are two totally diffrent grinds. my buddy had turbo'ed his honda once and it ran like crap with stage 2 n/a cams in it. it ran ALOT better with turbo cams...

 

[Marc91GSX]

i was thinking this after i made my above post. they are two totally diffrent grinds. my buddy had turbo'ed his honda once and it ran like crap with stage 2 n/a cams in it. it ran ALOT better with turbo cams...

There isn't a per say Boosted cam or Natural Cam. The reason your friend's car ran better on a different grind is because the cam was a better match to what he had. There are three areas of a cams grind that you need to pay attention too.

LSA which is the angle of seperation between the closing of the intake valve and opening of the exhaust valve. A lower number means you have more overlap (both valves being open at the same time) and higher number means the opposite (duh). Why is this important? The overlap helps with scavenging the exhaust gases from the cylinder and pulling the fresh air into the cylinder. The down side to a lot of overlap is that you richen up the A/F mixture because some of the fresh oxygen is lost through the exhaust meaning that you have more fuel in the mixture.

Duration, which is how long a particular valve stays open. Here the higher the number the longer the valve stays open. There are two numbers involved here; Max, which is the entire length of time from the opening to closing of the valve and then you have the duration @.050, this number is the amount of time the valve is open at max lift. A higher
.050 number, in relation to the max duration, usually means a more aggressive ramp angle which can pose problems to the valve train.

Lift, which should be self explanatory. Too much lift can cause clearance issues with the pistons but other than that more lift is usually better no matter the engine design.