Piston and rod recommendation for 700-900hp

DemonDSM · 08-28-2008, 10:08 PM

Ok Ive been out of the loop for a while b/c of my baby. Let me sum it up I have a 92talon with JE pistons 9.0:1 and eagle rods. I dynoed it and ended up burning up piston number 3. Dont ask it was a stupid error why. But Anyways I pretty much wanted to upgrade to a piston and rod setup that will holdup to 900. Any recommendations?

spooled_u_1st · 08-28-2008, 10:47 PM

Venolia pistons and Pauter X-Beam Rods Rods

90laserRSfwd · 08-28-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spooled_u_1st

Venolia pistons and Pauter X-Beam Rods Rods

Didn't even know anyone else knew about Venolia pistons...

I'd say the good old Groden / Wiesco 1400 series combo too.

4G63_n/t_GS · 08-29-2008, 08:25 AM

I'm going with Grp rods and a set of custom ordered Weisco. Should hold 600hp easy. Also Arias pistons have been proven as well.

Damn man I thought I was bad. You have been on here since 2002 and have one post GEEZ!!

1gDSM4g63 · 08-29-2008, 09:03 AM

What you have is good, Eagle H-beam Rod is good for 900hp and JE are very good pistons but 9:1 pistons are very hard to tune. It take perfection but it can do it it will be superb otherwise I suggest you go 8.3 or 8.5:1.

twicks69 · 08-29-2008, 11:30 AM

Well, I would probably have to go with the Eagle rod/Ross ceramic-coated piston setup as mine has been without a problem for years and has been proven to over 1000HP.

Just my reccomendation though.

dragonov_elite · 08-29-2008, 01:11 PM

My Stroker is getting built with Pauter X-beams and Ross racing pistons and i am shooting for a street-able 500hp or 11.5 quarter. Even though i should be able to push the limits on this motor far passed 700hp. But i am sure twicks69 would not lead you down a wrong path to build a great motor. In many cases i think it could just be better to get a new set of pistons and use the rods again but then you are looking for 900 so i would replace them just for a piece of mind.

Just my .02 cents

DemonDSM · 08-29-2008, 02:08 PM

holy shit! I didn't think I was gonna get these many replies I thought I wad actually gonna get fried for destroyin some je pistons. I was pricin the groden rods but buscher pretty much let it be known that if I plan on drivin on the street forget it. I appreciate the help so far guys thanx.

1992awdlaser · 08-29-2008, 02:23 PM

The only thing with aluminum rods is you need to check the rod bolt stretch every few thousand miles and replace if they stretch too much. Forget about what buschur told you. There are a few guys on dsmlink forum with aluminum rods and over 10,000 miles on them with the same rod bolts that came with them. The aluminum rods will also help your rod bearings last longer. There's no reason to not drive an aluminum rod motor on the street unless you don't want to check the rod bolt stretch every few thousand miles. The days when you couldn't run an aluminum rod motor for very long are gone due to new technology.

When I build my motor I will be using Groden rods and mahle pistons.

wt71gas · 08-29-2008, 02:33 PM

You can run aluminum rods on the street but I think what Buschur meant is that the average guy will never check the rod bolts every 3k miles on a street car. Standard eagle rods are really rated at around the 650 -700 mark. If you are looking for something that will hold up to a little more abuse we offer our eagle rods with a cryogenic treatment that will allow you a little more breathing room if you do make it a little over the 700hp mark. The rods are on sale right now and the cryo treatment is an extra $30 over the standard untreated rods.

Wayne

twicks69 · 08-29-2008, 02:40 PM

The Groden rods are very nice pieces, but are a little overkill for a street car of this nature.

While I really like aluminum rods, I would push you in this direction though, as it will make for a more reliable/less maintenence setup:

The rod choices I would look at are the following in no specific order:
*Eagle H-Beam Rods (575 grams=6-bolt, 550 grams 7-bolt) $339.00
*Crower I-Beam Rods $689.00
*Carillo A-Beam Rods (520 grams each) $880.00
*Tomei H-Beam Rods $970.00
*Manley H- Beam Rods $359.00
*Manley Turbo-TUF I-Beam Rods $750.00
*Pauter X-Beam Rods $875.00

The piston choices I would have are sortof in order:
*ROSS Pistons*** 8.5:1, 352 grams each, $440.00
*Mahle Pistons 250 grams each!!, $515.00
*Manley Pistons 8.5:1 $400.00
*Wiseco Pistons 9.0:1, 330-360 grams each depending on version, $440.00

I also believe in the usage of ceramic coating, so I would look into FFWD Connection for the "S.O.B." ceramic coating on the skirts and domes of the pistons, as well as Swain Technologies has excellent experience in ceramic coating.

I also believe in the usage of cryo-treatment for important parts. I would cryo the piston rings, rod bearings, wrist pins, main bearings, rods and crank for extra protection and longevity with reduced wear and friction. In the past, I have had my cryo-treatment done through Beyond Redline Performance or FFWD Connection.

As for the prices above, they were just a fast number from one or two sites; they are in no way the lowest price I could find.

If you want the craziest, lightest weight, most expensive, highest maintenence setup, I would go with a Groden Aluminum Rod and a Ross or Mahle Piston Setup (The Mahle's are much lighter, but have a high silica percentage, leaving them a bit more fragile under detonation). I am looking at this direction this winter. I am expecting that it will end up costing around $1800-2000 for the rods, pistons, bearings, coatings and cryo-treatment; along with another $700-1200 depending on what I end up doing with an Eagle crank -->That is a large chunk of change to put down on a rotating assembly.

If you want a cost effective, light-weight, low maintenence setup that is capable of supporting 1000HP, then I would look at the Eagle Rod/ Ross Piston combo, or an Eagle/Wiseco combo. Personally, I like Ross over Wiseco, but they are both proven performers with very good track records.

Good luck,

1992awdlaser · 08-29-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wt71gas

You can run aluminum rods on the street but I think what Buschur meant is that the average guy will never check the rod bolts every 3k miles on a street car. Standard eagle rods are really rated at around the 650 -700 mark. If you are looking for something that will hold up to a little more abuse we offer our eagle rods with a cryogenic treatment that will allow you a little more breathing room if you do make it a little over the 700hp mark. The rods are on sale right now and the cryo treatment is an extra $30 over the standard untreated rods.

Wayne

Eagle says the Mitsubishi rods are good to 1,000 horsepower. http://www.eaglerod.com/2008%20Eagle%20catalog.pdf Go to page 81.

wt71gas · 08-29-2008, 08:50 PM

I know the catalog says 1000 hp but we have built a couple motors now that have hit really close to that mark and we didn't use eagle rods. They have been proven reliable between 650-700 hp but if you have the money to build a true 1000 hp motor I would recommend putting in a little better connecting rod for the fact that it's cheap insurance. You don't wanna be the guy that finds out that an eagle rod didn't quite make it. If you get a cryo treated set of eagle rods they will be reliable towards the 800 hp mark which still says a lot for the price. Really it just depends on your actual hp goals for the engine.

starion4g63 · 08-29-2008, 08:51 PM

Eagle rods will not hold that power. Maybe on a dynojet dream meter. Ask me how I know lol.

1992awdlaser · 08-29-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wt71gas

I know the catalog says 1000 hp but we have built a couple motors now that have hit really close to that mark and we didn't use eagle rods. They have been proven reliable between 650-700 hp but if you have the money to build a true 1000 hp motor I would recommend putting in a little better connecting rod for the fact that it's cheap insurance. You don't wanna be the guy that finds out that an eagle rod didn't quite make it. If you get a cryo treated set of eagle rods they will be reliable towards the 800 hp mark which still says a lot for the price. Really it just depends on your actual hp goals for the engine.

You said they were rated at 650-700hp. I was just pointing out what they rate them at and not what people have made with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starion4g63

Eagle rods will not hold that power. Maybe on a dynojet dream meter. Ask me how I know lol.

1,000hp rating means at the flywheel, not at the wheels like you are talking about.

twicks69 · 08-29-2008, 10:04 PM

Well, I would trust an Eagle rod on a properly tuned car to over 800AWHP; maybe I am biased, but it has easily held over 750AWHP and over 700TQ SAE uncorrected on an AWD dyno with a safe tune at only 44-38psi of boost (peak and then dropping off). The reason we didn't push it further was because the turbo was falling off of boost pressure -- it later snapped its shaft due to extended high boost/high rpm abuse on the dyno. 800AWHP is definitely obtainable on a GT4088R with a well tuned setup. This ends up around 1000AWHP SAE, and a bit over on STP numbers.

Alex, don't get me wrong, I am not arguing with you whatsoever, it is just my experiences and we are definitely allowed to have our personal opinions. I would likely go with another rod had I originally known that my horsepower levels were ever going to hit this proportion. I originally built the motor 3 years ago for 600whp with a GT35 setup, not 800AWHP on a GT4088R setup.

Personally, it is not worth getting into a pissing match over what the rod can handle for this guy's application, as we have absolutely no pertinent information about his setup other than the fact that there was a problem with tuning on a Eagle/JE setup.

If we had a complete list of modifications, and power goals within reason, it would help in properly helping this person decide which application is right for him.

From what is sounds like, all we know is that this is a street car. Thats it.

1gDSM4g63 · 08-30-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1992awdlaser

Eagle says the Mitsubishi rods are good to 1,000 horsepower. http://www.eaglerod.com/2008%20Eagle%20catalog.pdf Go to page 81.

I second that, the last time I called them they said it was capable at 900 hp.

AshTsi · 08-30-2008, 10:32 AM

I'm glad this came up. I bought a set of eagle H-beams a while back, but wasn't sure what they were actually rated at. There were a few threads a while back about some Evo making a little over 700Whp and everyone made a big deal about it because they were using h-beams.

I personally probably wouldn't take them over 700whp, because it kind of seems to be hit and miss with them. Some people say sure why not and push them to 800whp. Thats all fine and dandy, but IMO Like Wayne said i dont want to be the guy that finds out what my set of H-beams are good for.

If i were you DemonDSM, i would play it safe and go with something thats rated to handle the abuse. Sure h-beams could probly do it, but they say 700-800 and you are looking for 700-900 (which it quite a large gap). Maby you will hit 900 who knows, but why be stuck with a rod that is at the bottom of your Hp range you are aiming for, get something thats good for 900 no questions asked.

I would say the Groden's. Because you probably arn't going to be driving this on the street so checking for stretch probly wont be that huge of a deal

Not to go off topic, but wail we are on ratings and everyone has a different opinion. What would you guys say that the oem 2.4 crank for a stroker is good up to?

twicks69 · 08-30-2008, 11:09 AM

Well, it depends on its condition. There are several people on here running high HP cars on an OEM crank. My crank was lightened a bit by FFWD Connection ("Butchered"), but has held up with no problems at the same HP levels as the Eagle rods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshTsi

Not to go off topic, but wail we are on ratings and everyone has a different opinion. What would you guys say that the oem 2.4 crank for a stroker is good up to?