[RESOLVED] 10 quarts of oil to prime engine?

[VTEC_THIS]

I forgot to prime the oil pump when putting together my new engine. The engine's in the car now, so I'm following this method.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...pump-timing-components-already-installed.html

Problem is, I've pumped 10 quarts of oil through the oil pressure sender unit. It hasn't gotten harder to pump, like the write up said it would. I haven't heard any noises from the air being forced out. Also, I'm not seeing oil come up to the head by the rocker arms.

After 10 quarts you'd think it would be primed by now. I checked, there's no oil leaks. Should I keep pumping oil or am I doing something wrong.

Just so everyone knows, I'm not planning on starting the car with 10 quarts of oil. I'm just trying to prime it, then I'll drain it and fill it back up with 5.5 quarts.

Any help would be appreciated, I want to get the car running.

 

[silver bullit]

You started the motor dry and now you can enjoy spun bearings.

Sure oil is not leaking anywhere?

Also is the oil drain plug in?



Well hopefully not is the timing correct, did you install the piece in right?

 

[Burnett03]

Not true.. If the motor was assemblied with assembly lube the startup will go fine assuming the motor creates oil pressure. If it was me i'd crank the motor with the cas disconected and see if oil pressure builds. Sometimes a drill can't spin it fast enough.

 

[silver bullit]

True but some people dont know what they are doing.

Using an impact on the oil pump works the fastest.

Sure you installed the pick up tube and pump correct?

 

[VTEC_THIS]

You started the motor dry and now you can enjoy spun bearings.

Get raped.

Sure oil is not leaking anywhere?

Also is the oil drain plug in?



Well hopefully not is the timing correct, did you install the piece in right?

My engine hasn't been started yet and it's a fresh rebuild. Why would I have spun a bearing?

No oil leaks and drain plug is in.

Timing is correct.

WTF

 

[silver bullit]

I though you was turning the motor over with the starter this whole time

 

[VTEC_THIS]

No, I am using the method I linked to so I can prime the pump and lubricate my new build first.

My question is, why after pumping ten quarts of oil through the pressure sender am I not getting a good indication that it's primed?

 

[silver bullit]

There may be a clog in the oil line in the block, did you hot tank it or clean it out?

 

[VTEC_THIS]

Thanks for the quick replies.

If there was a clog somewhere wouldn't I feel pressure while hand pumping the oil into the engine? I've gotten ten quarts in very easily so far. After the last quart of oil I figured I would post since it was getting really excessive.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

WTF

I think you might have misread what turboAWDfanatic was saying to do with the bottle size...
either 1qt (x5), a single 1 galon (equal to about 4 quarts), or a single 5qt bottle. 10 quarts is way too much for the engine. I would start checking leaks into your radiator fluid, turbo, intake, exhaust. If you pumped in 10 quarts, it all has to go somewhere. I say there is a leak because you aren't getting anything to the head which is really strange after more the double the original amount.

 

[VTEC_THIS]

Thanks for the input.

I know ten quarts is way too much oil. I kept pumping to see when it would make its way to the head.

I will have to check to see where the oil went in the morning. If no oil made its way to the head then I don't think there would be anything in the intake or exhaust manifolds or pipes. However, I wonder what other places it may have gone if it's not working its way up to my head..

Could some of the oil just have gone through my turbo and back to the oil pan via the oil return line?

Basically, I need to prime my engine with oil while its in the car because I forgot to prime the oil pump while assembling everything.

I don't want to just start cranking the ignition and hope that oil pressure builds.

 

[architechnik]

What does the dipstick level look like? I think at about 10qts you'll start coming out the top. If you have 10 qts in there you'll likely not need to prime it any further. At that level the pump will have been saturated as the oil would be above the level of the pump.

Have you turned the engine over by hand a few times? Have you done anything to the engine internals, such as eliminating balance shafts, and forgot to plug those holes.

You'll need to check that oil is getting to the top half of the engine, and the only way to do that is to get the pressure high enough. You could get it back to level and start it up after making sure your levels are correct and dropping a bit of oil in the top. With the engine running, pull the oil cap and see if the cams are getting oiled... of course if you don't cut the engine soon enough you could mess up your head.

 

[VTEC_THIS]

Balance shaft is eliminated, I covered the holes to the oil galley with the bearing. I will try turning the crank with a socket in the morning.

I am trying to avoid the possibility of damage to a new rebuild.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

Could some of the oil just have gone through my turbo and back to the oil pan via the oil return line?

Path of least resistance also applies to fluid dynamics...so yes. It would rather flow back to the pan (a bit lower) then to be forced to the top of the engine fighting gravity all the way. The only other thing I am finding weird is 10qts. and there still is no pressure feedback to the hand pump. In my opinion, the oil never got above the pan because it never got hard to push it up.

Try contacting turboAWDfanatic. He is a local guy so I will ask him at some point what that threads finer details were.

*And I meant Intake pre/post turbo and exhaust post turbo in case it is the turbo that is leaking*

 

[nytescion]

i just did mine yesterday used an impact on the oil pump pulley/nut. put the timing belt back on started and it was fine.

 

[VTEC_THIS]

i just did mine yesterday used an impact on the oil pump pulley/nut. put the timing belt back on started and it was fine.

That really doesn't help me.

 

[sbiggi]

I wouldnt think the hand pump could move enough oil under pressure to prime the motor. It would probably drain back to the pan before it could build enough pressure.

How about you put the timing tension tool on, pull the belt and prime it the right way?

 

[VTEC_THIS]

I'm posting because the motor's already in the car w/everything installed, I'd rather not take off the timing belt to get to the oil pump. Just because that's the way you primed your oil pump, it's the only right way? I know I should have packed the oil pump w/assembly lube, but I didn't.

I'm not sure why silver bullit and sbiggi feel it's necessary to leave their smart ass comments. If your going to leave a smartass comment, don't bother posting here. Sarcasm isn't going to make my car start.

 

[nytescion]

That really doesn't help me.

i just told you how you need to do it. but since you need it broken down for you I'll do that.

Take 2 spring clamps put one on one cam gear and another on the other. it would be best if you put the spring clamp just before the belt leaves the intake cam gear and right after the belt touches the exhaust cam gear that way nothing moves on the top. secondly take a white marker or fingernail polish and mark where the belt is on the crank sprocket and oil pump gear. Now have a friend put a small prybar on the bottom of the waterpump and the wedge part ontop of the tensioner pulley and apply constant pressure to depress the pin in the tensioner. while he is depressing the pin stick an appropriate size allen wrench through the slot in the (hopefully I don't need to tell you the size for that too). once it slides in take the tensioner off. now you should be able to slide the belt off the crank sprocket and oil pump gear. NOW how your friend sit in the car and watch your pressure gauge. Attach an impact gun to the oil pump nut and turn. Have your friend tell you once he see it come up. YOU NOW HAVE PRESSURE. you can do 1 of 2 things now reattach everything and start it or start it how it is.

Also just to let you know I didn't pack my oil pump either and eliminated my balance shafts. So since you didn't either I'm pretty sure this is the only way you're going to be able to do it. NO turning it by hand will not be enough so don't waste your time. If anything on the timing belt area not the same for a 2g well IMPROVISE!!

 

[VTEC_THIS]

Sarcasm once again.

The whole point of this thread is to find out if there's any way to prime it without taking off the timing belt. There are already enough threads on how to prime the oil pump without the timing belt installed.

Edit: nytescion - If I offended you in any way by saying your post didn't help me, I didn't mean to. I just felt what you said was irrelevant to the point of this thread.

 

[Burnett03]

Maybe my answer wasn't good enough or you didnt like it, but remove the CAS plug and crank it. This should build oil pressure.. If you properly lubed your motor with assembly lube you should have no issues.

 

[VTEC_THIS]

No, your answer was good. Right now I already have the coil pack unplugged with the spark plugs out. I also have the fuel injectors already unplugged. I definitely like the idea of unplugging the CAS, it's easier to just unplug that. I'll do that the next time I need to unplug them. I tried cranking the car for about 10-15 seconds twice, no oil pressure is building up yet and the oil light is still on. I just drained the oil out, once again and I'm pumping it into the oil pressure unit. But this time, I disconnected the turbo oil feed line, and plugged it off. This way I'm hoping the oil will make it's way up to the oil pump, instead of going into the turbo, then back into the oil pan via oil return line. After I pump the oil in, I'm going to try to crank it again to see if it builds oil pressure this time.

Also, about the assembly lube...I bought the block from someone who had a machine shop put it together. So it definitely should have assembly lube in it, but I don't want to count on it - just in case.

I'll be back in 15 minutes with results, thanks.

Update: I blocked off the turbo oil feed line and pumped 5.5 quarts of oil through where the pressure sending unit sits. Tried cranking the car, still no oil pressure.

I'm going to try a method that blue1 suggested in another thread.

"Aussie cheats way is to block off your PCV valve and pump compressed air into your breather pipe in the back of the valve cover. Take off your oil filter and when oil starts to run out of your oil filter mount you have primed the pump. Best way is the drill but if the engine is already assembled and its a hassel to dissasseble the timing belt all again this will help"

If this doesn't work, I might have to bite the bullet and take off the timing belt like you guys suggested.

 

[architechnik]

I don't think you'll get any oil coming through the pump if you compress air in the pvc. It will likely push any oil that is in the top back through the lines into the block, though.
If you have filled the engine with so much oil, the pump should be primed, whether the pressure unit says so or not. Have you considered checking the the gauge?

 

[VTEC_THIS]

Errr...I'm starting to get mad. I just double checked the oil pressure sending unit. I cleaned off the connections and plugged it back in, then tried cranking it. Still no oil pressure and the oil light's still on. I'm starting to wonder if there's something mechanically wrong, why I'm not getting oil pressure yet. I'm not sure though, because nothing comes to mind that could of been installed incorrectly. Everything with the build was pretty straight forward. Nothing's clogged, the block was fresh out of a machine shop. Everything else (oil pan, oil pick up tube, turbo oil feed line, return line, etc) was all cleaned out.

 

[Burnett03]

Try cranking it with the turbo line disconnected from the turbo.. Does oil come out of the turbo feed line? if so the oil is pumping fine.