experince with fluid damper

[bmoha2]

I got the telltale squealing signs of my harmonic damper main pulley dying again. This would be the third time I replaced it. Can someone tell me from personal experience that if I spend the money for the fluid damper that I won't have to replace it again? I had it replaced the last two times at mitsubishi who installed all new belts and tensioned them after the pulley split and ate my belts.

 

[95AWD_TSI_TALON]

In all honestly the ATI unit is a better piece. Comes with the lower crank timing gear as part of the set.
I have ran it for a while an like it.
Matt

 

[bmoha2]

Is it still a machined fluid dampened pulley like the fluid dyne pulley set?

 

[bmoha2]

I looked it up. Pretty expensive. Does it still use a fluid core dampener like the fluid dyne pulley? I want to get away from a clamshell rubber dampener like the stock design.

 

[gob4sho89]

I have the fluid damper and like it alot, but I have only used it for about 600 miles. I compared its weight to my stock pully and it weighed 1.2 lbs less... so I guess it improves performance also

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

I have a Fluidampr unit as well... Although I needed a slightly longer belt for my Jay Racing's Alternator relocation kit and slightly longer mounting bolts to bolt it on, it was a good investment. -No more seperating of the OEM style dampeners (plus I'm running a 2.4L so the OEM 4g63 dampener was a mismatch from the get-go). I have ~2500 on it and haven't had any issues with it what so ever.
If you do decide to go with a Fluidampr unit, just be sure that you use the correct timing marks as they are also marked for the Evo 4g63s that are 180* off from the US spec TEL DSMs. -Then just go off of the timing cover as usual.

 

[daren_p]

If you descide to pick one of these up, they may have some left from this group buy as they bought extra:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/vendor-announcements/275227-fluidampr-group-buy-250-a.html

Thats where I picked mine up, should be here in a couple days but I won't have my car out of storage till the spring. My stocker still seems to be doing its job, but being the car is getting close to 10 years old, I figured it would only be so long till I needed a new one. And with the amount of guys complaining about even new OEM ones going in a very short time, I figure its worth the extra to not have to worry abit it in the future. Plus it will work properly if/when the motor gets built. When I did my timing belt I also replaced all the accessory belts (with OEM Mitsu) & they really add up. I figured if a stock one failed & I lost all the accessory belts & had to buy new OEM belts & pully, I'll basically be at the same price as the Fluidampr.

 

[bmoha2]

The last two times my lower pulley died I had it replaced at a mitsubishi. It was way expensive. The timing belt and all accessories are relatively new and I shouldn't need to replace any for another thirty thousand miles. How many of you have replaced the pulley yourselves? I'm going to take a sec to read the vfaq if I can find one for it

 

[bmoha2]

I didn't find a vfaq for the lower pulley replacement anyone have any suggestions? Would I just follow the timing belt procedure?

 

[Spoolin98]

In all honestly the ATI unit is a better piece. Comes with the lower crank timing gear as part of the set.
I have ran it for a while an like it.
Matt

Says who? You? Do you have proof the ATI is a better unit? Or are you just saying that because it comes with a crank gear? The crank gear plays no role in the stock pulley failing, therefore it doesnt even need to be replaced.
Or do you just think its a better unit because it costs more?

I have a Fluidampr unit as well... Although I needed a slightly longer belt for my Jay Racing's Alternator relocation kit and slightly longer mounting bolts to bolt it on, it was a good investment. -No more seperating of the OEM style dampeners (plus I'm running a 2.4L so the OEM 4g63 dampener was a mismatch from the get-go). I have ~2500 on it and haven't had any issues with it what so ever.
If you do decide to go with a Fluidampr unit, just be sure that you use the correct timing marks as they are also marked for the Evo 4g63s that are 180* off from the US spec TEL DSMs. -Then just go off of the timing cover as usual.

How do you know which timing marks to use? Do you have to match it up to the stock pulley or is there a way to tell?

 

[nc90awd]

I didn't find a vfaq for the lower pulley replacement anyone have any suggestions? Would I just follow the timing belt procedure?

you dont have to mess with the timing belt or cover. You just remove the a/c, and alternator belts, then you just remover the 4 bolts holding on the pulley and put on your fluidampr. I have had a fluidampr on my car for 7k miles and its great. It is one of the few pars that will probably outlast the car. The ati dampeners you do have to remove the timing belt and they cost about $450 so your best bet is the fluidampr.

 

[bmoha2]

I think I might take this opportunity to cherry pick the motor out and eliminate the balance shafts, pull off the a/c compressor, install a full set of poly motor mounts and replace the lower pulley. Looks like eliminating the balance shafts will be a total pain in the ass with the motor in the car.

 

[95AWD_TSI_TALON]

Says who? You? Do you have proof the ATI is a better unit? Or are you just saying that because it comes with a crank gear? The crank gear plays no role in the stock pulley failing, therefore it doesnt even need to be replaced.
Or do you just think its a better unit because it costs more?

Take a look at the design. Fluidampr still bolts on just as stock...using 4 bolts to line it up and help hold it still alloming small vibrations thru it. As the ATI unit replaces the crank gear and gives a much larger, PRESS FIT hub for the crank pulley to mount to. If you have seen an ATI unit apart (being installed) you would see the difference. its not just a new timing crank gear. It is a gear and HUB.
Matt

 

[bmoha2]

I appreciate the info! I have never looked at it closely so was uncertain.

 

[Spoolin98]

Take a look at the design. Fluidampr still bolts on just as stock...using 4 bolts to line it up and help hold it still alloming small vibrations thru it. As the ATI unit replaces the crank gear and gives a much larger, PRESS FIT hub for the crank pulley to mount to. If you have seen an ATI unit apart (being installed) you would see the difference. its not just a new timing crank gear. It is a gear and HUB.
Matt

"Allowing small vibrations through it"? Thats the purpose of it, to absorb vibrations from the motor. If it wasnt allowing vibrations through it then the dampener wouldnt be doing its job.

Since when was the stock design of the crank gear an issue though? The issue at hand is the stock crank pulley coming apart. The fluidamper is a solid piece that dampens better than the stock unit. So the issue of how the pulley bolts up is not at hand, all that matters is the pulley does its job. It dampens and doesnt fall apart.

I never said there wasnt a difference between the two pulleys designs. I said you have no proof the ATI is better than the fluidamper. Just because the ATI has a press fit hub does not necessarily make it a better part nor does it mean that it performs better. Unless there was a way you can prove the ATI is a better unit, I just dont think that statement should be made.

Im sure they both perform better than the stock unit and dont fall apart, thats the most important factor.

 

[Spoolin98]

I think I might take this opportunity to cherry pick the motor out and eliminate the balance shafts, pull off the a/c compressor, install a full set of poly motor mounts and replace the lower pulley. Looks like eliminating the balance shafts will be a total pain in the ass with the motor in the car.

Please dont take this offensively...
But if you dont know how to change a crank pulley, I highly suggest you dont jump into pulling your motor and removing the balance shafts.
Start slowly, do the crank pulley first by itself.
Then do the motor mounts by themselves.
If you feel comfortable pulling the motor, removing balance shafts, and doing a timing belt after the other work, then go for it.
Seems to my like your assuming that you mind as well pull the motor just because your replacing your crank pulley. Your turning an hour job into many hours of labor.
If you choose to not take my advice, then good luck!

 

[95AWD_TSI_TALON]

"Allowing small vibrations through it"? Thats the purpose of it, to absorb vibrations from the motor. If it wasnt allowing vibrations through it then the dampener wouldnt be doing its job.

Since when was the stock design of the crank gear an issue though? The issue at hand is the stock crank pulley coming apart. The fluidamper is a solid piece that dampens better than the stock unit. So the issue of how the pulley bolts up is not at hand, all that matters is the pulley does its job. It dampens and doesnt fall apart.

I never said there wasnt a difference between the two pulleys designs. I said you have no proof the ATI is better than the fluidamper. Just because the ATI has a press fit hub does not necessarily make it a better part nor does it mean that it performs better. Unless there was a way you can prove the ATI is a better unit, I just dont think that statement should be made.

Im sure they both perform better than the stock unit and dont fall apart, thats the most important factor.

Alright since you are trying to push it farther. The "vibrations" would be caused by the 4 bolts holding on the crank pulley. As they are not colar'ed bolts. Which in turn can lead to other issues of the bolts backing out and the pulley coming unmounted (not a common problem). And worse the pulley NOT DO IT JOB.
Example- Have you ever used an old wooden se-saw? Notice how it flexs BEFORE it picks up the other person. It is giving before it works. Same theory.

ATI noticed issues like this and IMPROVED apon the design of the OEM unit. If you think OEM design is the best way and could not need improvment.... then what are you suggesting even the fluidampr unit for,its not oem? as I am guessing you are trying to say OEM is the best/ only way. (Hence why he is here from failed OEM harmonic balancers)

But if you want your proof that the ATI unit is better, It is SFI certified. The fluidampr unit is not.
I am not saying the fluidampr unit is junk. I am saying they are both good units but the ATI is a better choice only for those that NEED it.

Spoolin98- I hope you ejactulated while you had your E-boner.

Matt

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

How do you know which timing marks to use? Do you have to match it up to the stock pulley or is there a way to tell?

That's what I did anyways... I guess if you remove the OEM dampener at TDC then reinstall the Fluidampr (or ATI) unit then you will be good, provided that your existing dampener hasn't already seperated. I verified my findings with a good OEM pulley that I salvaged off of my old motor.
I then took a black parts marker to the "other" timing marks and a silver marker to the correct timing marks and Bingo! -This step was done to eliminate any confusion while setting the timing via a timing light. I would recomend this to anyone else who ends up going with one of the Fluidampr units.

 

[bmoha2]

I've replaced all the struts/springs, installed front and rear poly motor mounts, replaced the clutch and flywheel at 60k with a new clutch master cylinder, installed the SS exhaust manifold studs, the DNP exhaust manifold, FP Big T28 turbo, Buschur racing SS downpipe, SS hi flo cat, Thermal Research catback exhaust, Replaced all four brakes rotors, replaced all four brake calipers, installed SS brake lines I'm no expert but I do have a decent amount of experience. I do not feel confident in doing a timing belt by myself and was not sure whether I had to mess with the timing belt or not. Now that I see that the lower crank pulley is a very simple affair I have no problems doing it.

 

[Spoolin98]

Alright since you are trying to push it farther. The "vibrations" would be caused by the 4 bolts holding on the crank pulley. As they are not colar'ed bolts. Which in turn can lead to other issues of the bolts backing out and the pulley coming unmounted (not a common problem). And worse the pulley NOT DO IT JOB.
Example- Have you ever used an old wooden se-saw? Notice how it flexs BEFORE it picks up the other person. It is giving before it works. Same theory.

ATI noticed issues like this and IMPROVED apon the design of the OEM unit. If you think OEM design is the best way and could not need improvment.... then what are you suggesting even the fluidampr unit for,its not oem? as I am guessing you are trying to say OEM is the best/ only way. (Hence why he is here from failed OEM harmonic balancers)

But if you want your proof that the ATI unit is better, It is SFI certified. The fluidampr unit is not.
I am not saying the fluidampr unit is junk. I am saying they are both good units but the ATI is a better choice only for those that NEED it.

Spoolin98- I hope you ejactulated while you had your E-boner.

Matt

Your arguments are pointless...
First of all, when do you ever hear of crank pulleys falling off or bolts backing out? I have been on forums for years and have never once heard or seen that. And IF you have heard or seen it, its a rare occurance that was probably the persons own fault, not a defect in the OEM design or bolts. All you hear about is the OEM pulley coming apart.

The same way ATI improved on the OEM design, so did fluidamper. They both made a product that DOESNT COME APART & DAMPENS, THE ONLY ISSUE AT HAND.

I dont know where your getting that I said the OEM unit is the best, you must not know how to read correctly. I stated several times that the OEM unit comes apart and that both the ATI and the Fluidamper perform better than the OEM unit. So read correctly before running your mouth.

Thats funny that the only proof you have that the ATI is better than the Fluidamper is that its not SFI certified, which is FALSE. Its stamped right on the fluidamper unit "Meets SFI SPEC. 18.1".

https://www.jacksonautomachine.com/html/shopping/list_section.cfm?sectionId=31
(click on the picture and look at the pulley)

So you can take my E-boner and stick it your mouth.

 

[Spoolin98]

That's what I did anyways... I guess if you remove the OEM dampener at TDC then reinstall the Fluidampr (or ATI) unit then you will be good, provided that your existing dampener hasn't already seperated. I verified my findings with a good OEM pulley that I salvaged off of my old motor.
I then took a black parts marker to the "other" timing marks and a silver marker to the correct timing marks and Bingo! -This step was done to eliminate any confusion while setting the timing via a timing light. I would recomend this to anyone else who ends up going with one of the Fluidampr units.

Thanks for the info

It shouldnt be a problem since the pulley has a dowel pin to align it correctly on the crank, as long as you line the dowel pin holes up on both pulleys you can just verify the timing marks without removing the pulley.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Thanks for the info

It shouldnt be a problem since the pulley has a dowel pin to align it correctly on the crank, as long as you line the dowel pin holes up on both pulleys you can just verify the timing marks without removing the pulley.

Right... Verifying it against an OEM damener was more just for piece of mind in my case... Actually blackening out the incorrect tick marks allows for better visibility when setting the base timing via a timing light.

...and just to clarify: The crank's timing belt drive gear actually has the alignment dowel, the Fluidapr unit (and probably the ATI as well) has the hole for it, not the other way around.

 

[bmoha2]

It's less expensive, still seems to be good quality and I haven't heard anyone saying that it breaks like this piece of shit stock part

 

[romeen]

One other pulley/balancer you can consider is the one from Fisher industries. I believe this is the same one the Buschur sells although I bought mine direct from the manufacturer about 5 or 6 years ago. It's a nice, quality piece and has held up well. My car does seem to rev up a bit faster with it.

Having said that, it was kind of an impulsive purchase and for the money you could probably do things that would give you more performance. Nonetheless, it is unique and works a bit differently than the others.

Here is some more info about it from a SCC project car. It is for a Nissan but the basic design for DSM's is the same.

Sport Compact - Google Book Search

 

[Spoolin98]

Right... Verifying it against an OEM damener was more just for piece of mind in my case... Actually blackening out the incorrect tick marks allows for better visibility when setting the base timing via a timing light.

...and just to clarify: The crank's timing belt drive gear actually has the alignment dowel, the Fluidapr unit (and probably the ATI as well) has the hole for it, not the other way around.

You know what I meant
My E-boner wasnt allowing me to think correctly...