Oil pump question

[v8s_are_slow]

My new motor is leaking oil around the oil pump area "somewhere". Anyway, was trying to fix it today and I was turning the oil pump gear by hand after taking the timing belt back off. Turned it a couple of times to the right and it got really tight and hard to turn. Turned it a couple of times to the left and same thing. I have a balance shaft eliminator kit so I dunno why it's getting so tight. This shouldn't be normal right???

It's a Topline oil pump that I bought from Slowboy but since they said they haven't had one fail, that was enough for me. Well, now I'm worried cause it's a brand new motor with MAYBE 300-400 miles on it. What do ya'll think? Thanks!

Scott

 

[GVR4592]

It's not normal for it to bind up or get difficult in one spot. It should be the same all the way around. Sounds like you need to take it off and inspect it.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Any idea of what could be wrong with it to make it bind like that? I know it's just 2 gears that mesh together so I can't for the life of me think of what the problem could be.

 

[project_tsi]

Possibly a snag or a burr in the gears.

I'm not too fond of the Topline pumps/covers. I've read of many failing over the OEM unit, hence the reason I run OEM.

 

[groundPork]

Possibly a snag or a burr in the gears.

I'm not too fond of the Topline pumps/covers. I've read of many failing over the OEM unit, hence the reason I run OEM.

Touche OEM... Not much for repro stuff. A lot of it is just as good, but I feel tha the quality control is the huge difference. We don't see a lot of faulty OEM becasue they don't let us. a lot of oil comming out, is likely a main seal not correctly aligned or installed. As far as the sudden loading and difficulty of turning the pump. Perhaps it is jammed, or perhaps it is just pressurising the system and you are feeling the resistance. Are you able to turn the crank again after it has been sitting for a few hours? Depending on several things.... bearing clearances, internal pump clearance, oil viscosity, engine temp., and the reliefe plug spring pressure, it will very on how much resistance you feel after a few turns of the crank. As any mechanic will tell you. DO NOT TURN the CRANK IN the COUNTERCLOCKWISE DIRECTION if it has been run in or used. It is just not a good thing to do if you can help it on so many levels. The engine turns and loads it's parts in one direction only. To move the other way will stress the parts the other way, which could cause breakeage, damage, scoring, any number of things.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

The timing belt was off when I turned it as well as the oil filter housing. The only thing that was being turned was the oil pump itself. When I was installing it, I didn't have any problems turning it. So dunno why I am now unless of course it's building pressure from the oil....but then again, I don't remember having that problem with any other dsm I've owned/worked on.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I called SBR today. They said that I could've installed it wrong. Apparently one of the gears could've been flipped around the wrong way and installed. That doesn't make sense though cause if it were installed wrong, it should be binding all the way around. Not just at one position. I also don't remember it giving me this problem before I installed it in the car when I turned the gear. I'm wondering if it's either just sucking up oil when I turn it thus it gets hard to turn (kinda doubt it though) or the pump is just going bad.

Well, they want me to take it off and inspect it and if it looks bad I have to send it in to them so they can look at it before sending me out another one. Even then, I wouldn't get it before the weekend (I'm trying to race this Sunday so guess having a pump before then is out). Aside from that I really wouldn't have the time to just let my car sit around while I wait.

Do ya'll think that somehow having the gear flipped over in the wrong direction would make it bind in one area instead of 100% of the time???

 

[project_tsi]

Too much timing belt tension can cause seizing of the oil pump.

 

[RavenX]

I have the topline oil pump for a better part of 20,000 miles and no problems here. I wish i could of gone with the OEM front case but alas money problems didn't let me do it.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Not to say it wasn't, but doubting the belt was too tight. I also only have maybe 300-400 miles on the thing at most. I'd think I'd really have to have some pressure on the belt to make it start having problems this soon.

And if the gear was installed backwards I'd really think that it'd bind all the way around. I dunno. I'm just very pissed off at the moment cause I just built the new motor and bought a brand new shep tranny, etc. etc. and I'm still having problems with this damn car , I've had a bunch of faulty parts that I've bought for the car, and not getting the results I've wanted after owning this thing for 2 or 3 years and tons of money dumped into it Guess I'll post later if 1.) I figure out the problem or 2.) The motor just blows up on me and I decide to drive it off of a cliff somewhere.

 

[Turbocharged]

How was your oil pressure? Try turning it with the oil filter off (no back-pressure).

SBR is full of it. The oil pump gears can only go in one direction (the pictures make this obvious):

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html

 

[v8s_are_slow]

If I remember right, the whole oil filter housing was off (cause my only agenda was to fix an oil leak but of course I tried spinning the gear and it was tight after a turn or 2). To be honest, I'm really not sure about the pressure cause that gauge on the cluster isn't working. Go figure. Trying to find another clutster I can replace it with. Especially now.

 

[Turbocharged]

You may just be feeling the resistance of picking up the motor oil. Try draining the oil and see if that makes a difference.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I sure hope that's all it is. It needs an oil change anyway. I'll try that and let ya know.

 

[pneumo]

Which stub shaft did you use for the bs elimination? Was it the mitsu shaft with the groove in it, or a non grooved shaft from a kit?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

The kit I got was from SBR. Okay, I tried once AGAIN to fix the freakin oil leak tonight with no success I changed the front main seal (even though the other one was new) and even put some black rtv around the outside edge just to make sure it'd seal. Freakin A!!! Still just dripping away from the bottom of the crank pulley. Really pissing me off.

Anyway, while I had the timing belt off, I tried spinning the oil pump gear once again by hand. It's definately not oil getting sucked up that's making it hard I don't think. Cause it'll get hard and then release. Hard and release again. I put a socket and rachet on it and I couldn't even feel it. But by hand I could barely turn it once it got tight. I know I need a gauge cluster or something that works so I can get some kind of oil pressure reading. But on my way home just now the oil light was flickering at about 3k rpm while cruising. So I pulled over and it went away. Got back up to speed and it'd flicker again. This car is so F'ing annoying I swear.

 

[TSIfreek]

Yea you need to get that pump off and take it apart ASAP. More than likely the pump is F---ed and will need a new one. You may find shaving from the pump in your oil filter if you cut it open. The next one you put on you remove the gear cover and pack it with vasoline /assembly lube and pre lube all the shafts. You will see a dot on each one of the pump gears these go UP and get put in with the dots faceing each other in line just like the cam gears.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I can't remember if I lined up the dots or not. But I did put some grease in there to prime the pump. That was definately done right. Looks like I'm doing this again tomorrow but I'll actually be taking off the pump. I'm so not in the mood to do it either.

 

[Suparata]

The dots don't mean much without the balance shafts.
Any oil pump can fail.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Yeah, I kinda thought that's what they would be for. Unfortunately I won't get a chance to tear into it again until tomorrow. Have a physical to do today for a new job. Gonna be a pain in my ass to have to pull the oil pan and all that other crap just to "inspect" the oil pump and try and find a stupid oil leak that doesn't seem to wanna go away. Damn it!!!! This will be the 3rd time in a week just pulling the timing belt off.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Well I'm really trying my hardest to get my car ready for track duty this weekend so that I can FINALLY get some times (albeit only 1/8th mile times ). Today I was fortunate enough to find out that one of my good friends here in town has a brand new Topline oil pump that he's letting me use incase I need it. Also a good thing too incase we need an exact pump to compare any differences of went wrong or something. So anyway, I'm gonna be taking off the one that's on my motor tomorrow (if it doesn't die on the 30 mile drive up to my parent's house where my tools are kept) and inspect it to see what's going on. I'll break it apart and maybe take some pics. Also take pics of the "unused" pump as well so ya'll can have some comparisons if need be. I'll try and get everything well documented if I can remember to do so. Have my keys and camera sitting on the box right now to be sure I remember to take the camera on the way out the door. Stay tuned....

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Alright, well today just totally sucked a nut!!! Spent the whole day working on the car. Yep, the oil pump was bad. The gears were fine, but the shaft and the inside of the case looked a lil chewed up and there was some metal shavings in there of course. Spent the entire freakin day working on the car and changed the pump with the one my buddy gave me. I'll post pics of the thing later but it's late and I'm tired and very pissed off.

Anyway, long story short, I drove it back home from my parents and stopped at a gas station after maybe 25 miles. No oil leaks, everything's dry, everything looks good. As SOON as I get on the road again, smoke it just POURING out the left side of the car. Pull over real quick and look under the car and now everything's soaked with oil again. Uggghhhh!!!! Drove it on home, I'll have to look at the cause later I guess, if I don't drive it off a cliff 1st.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Here's what I found yesterday.

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And of course this is how I packed the gears yesterday AND on the 1st one....

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Now I just have to find out what the recent problem is after last night

 

[v8s_are_slow]

That's a metal shaving....that came off the casing.

 

[TSIfreek]

Grease is not a good assembly lube in a motor. Its so thick it prvents the oil from flowing correctly and will not mix in with the oil.