Negative Effects of Race Gas

[larryd]

In a nutshell I went to the track on Friday, I put in 3 gallons of 116 leaded with almost no other gas in the car and I got bad timing and severe knock all night long. read more here..

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=181355#post181355

Im curious if what Ive been told is true, that running race gas when its extremely cold isnt a good idea.

 

[insane147]

racing gasoline that has more light end chemicals will tend to start easier, especially when its cold. however, it will also have less heavy fractions, which means it will be less dense and have less energy per gallon. most racing gasoline is formulated toward the heavy end.

you are using a pretty high octane gasoline, so it probably has alot of heavy fractions in it not alowing it to evaporate in the cold weather and giving you hard starts. plus its leaded which kills o2 sensors and cat-cons. try to go with something lighter, try these web pages to find out whats better for you :
http://www.racegas.com/Racegas/fuelspecs/default.asp
http://www.racegas.com/Racegas/specialtyfuels/default.asp
http://www.racegas.com/Racegas/specialtyfuels/default.asp
http://www.racegas.com/Racegas/specialtyfuels/default.asp
http://www.racegas.com/Racegas/specialtyfuels/default.asp

when you look at the spec sheets, look at the boiling points for each and a lower one will start better when cold.

 

[TSi92]

I run C-16 very often and so far no problems. My car seems to love it, I get lots of timing and cooler EGT's at 5-7 psi more than with pump. Yes it will eventually kill o2 sensors but it takes quite a bit of lead to kill those.

 

[rdrkt]

Larry I think everyone would agree that your car really isn’t tuned all the well right now. On a well tuned car you could throw in a few gallons of c16 and turn up the boost 5-10 lbs and go to town. However on your car in the state of tune that its in you probably shouldn’t even be racing right now. C16 and cold weather equals fantastic trap speeds. Don’t blame the gas be a little patient get your car sorted out a little more and give it a try in a few months and run good times as opposed to sputtering all over the track. We all know your car is destined for greatness just give it time. It would really suck to make a wrong move at this point and get even further off track.

 

[blackawdturbo]

I agree with rdrkt, my last night at the track here in the great 'ol northeast was on 10/31; god that feels like a lifetime ago but it was cold nonetheless. Intake temps were in the high 30's and running straight c-16 with 23 psi boost on my big 16g gave me incredible timing and very little knock. I think the gas is fine IMO.

Bill Kehn
'95 Tsi AWD
12.98 @ 106

 

[larryd]

ugh.. i guess its just my car then.. I just find it odd that my car ran 10x better on pump gas.. I guess the race gas was just to much in my current state.

 

[blackawdturbo]

I forgot to mention that my car runs the exact opposite on pump gas, like a$$. Don't get me wrong the car still pulls hard but I have to deal with alot more knock, obviously, along with much less boost and timing. Oh well, time to get that FMIC

Bill Kehn
'95 TSi AWD

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by insane147
racing gasoline that has more light end chemicals will tend to start easier, especially when its cold. however, it will also have less heavy fractions, which means it will be less dense and have less energy per gallon. most racing gasoline is formulated toward the heavy end.

you are using a pretty high octane gasoline, so it probably has alot of heavy fractions in it not alowing it to evaporate in the cold weather and giving you hard starts. plus its leaded which kills o2 sensors and cat-cons. try to go with something lighter, try these web pages to find out whats better for you :
http://www.racegas.com/Racegas/fuelspecs/default.asp
http://www.racegas.com/Racegas/specialtyfuels/default.asp
http://www.racegas.com/Racegas/specialtyfuels/default.asp
http://www.racegas.com/Racegas/specialtyfuels/default.asp
http://www.racegas.com/Racegas/specialtyfuels/default.asp

when you look at the spec sheets, look at the boiling points for each and a lower one will start better when cold.

I have been running 110 leaded for awhile now and I have been experienceing exactly what you have mentioned about hard starting, especially on cold early mornings. I notice that the car doesn't want to fire up on the first try. It usually takes about 2 to 3 times of turning the ignition over. As soon as I put 93 back in the tank it fires right up on the first try.

 

[blackawdturbo]

It's strange that you guys mention hard starting while using leaded gas because I have been having the exact same problem on pump gas, and since my last day of racing 10/30. It just doesn't want to fire on the first crank but then catches and runs great.

Bill Kehn =>> My car just doesn't like pump gas I guess

 

[jltcat]

The reason you are having trouble with C16 is because it isnt made for turbocharged engines. I believe its c14 but I cant remember I will post again to verify this. This gas is designed for turbo charged engines. Like I said let me look in my notes and Ill get back to you

 

[blackawdturbo]

From the VP racing web site:

C16
Used in: Turbocharged engines, blown engines and nitrous applications. NHRA Comp Eliminator spec fuel. Recommended by the top nitrous oxide companies.

• Color: Blue
• Lead: 6 Grams per gallon
• Motor Octane: 117
• Specific gravity: .730 at 60° F



-Bill Kehn

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by jltcat
The reason you are having trouble with C16 is because it isnt made for turbocharged engines.

You have it confused. C16 is for turbo motors C14 is for high compression naturally aspired motors. If you aren’t 100% positive DONT SAY ANYTHING Especially when posting in the Extreme section. We are trying to keep this forum as factually accurate as possible.

 

[jltcat]

Like I said let me look in my notes and Ill get back to you

I stand corrected C16 is the proper gas I was thinking of C18. Sorry for the confusion.

Ill look into what maybe causing your problem and hopefully Ill have an answer for you. I would suggest something now but good god I wouldnt want to spread any misinformation!

 

[Turbo]

The only negative effects I have ever recieved utilizing race gas
is the untimely demise of my O2 sensors.

Jltcat...I have seen some of your recent posts in other threads ...
disinformation is a bad thing ....That being said , are you a Vendor ?
Your homepage looks awfully familiar \ simular to the banner that sometimes pops up @ the top of the screen.
Wade

 

[jltcat]

No Im not a vendor no. When you said you have seen some of my other threads. Have you found any more misinfo??? Just curious.

 

[Turbo]

But now that you mention it , how is a Frank Jr. 19C a 21G ?
Just curious.
Wade

 

[jltcat]

Thanks Turbo I fix that if you find anything else let me know but not on this post.

What banner?

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by jltcat
I would suggest something now but good god I wouldnt want to spread any misinformation!

No you wouldnt. Dont get your panties in a twist. Im sure you have a lot of great information that you can give to us all. Your Supra is gorgeous. I was looking at the pictures in your link. But I still dont want to see missinfo spread Im sure you can respect that.

Guys keep OT talk to PMs or email

 

[jltcat]

In some cars such as my friends supra the "richness" of the gas is overloading the sensors and confusing the ECU. He had to change his computer to get it to run correctly. The info on the gas I originally posted was true. It was based on the specs for the VP race gas 20 years ago and they have since done away with it and added a lot more choices. C16 used to be for High compression engines and C14 was for forced induction cars.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by jltcat
In some cars such as my friends supra the "richness" of the gas is overloading the sensors and confusing the ECU. He had to change his computer to get it to run correctly. The info on the gas I originally posted was true. It was based on the specs for the VP race gas 20 years ago and they have since done away with it and added a lot more choices. C16 used to be for High compression engines and C14 was for forced induction cars.

Just curious...what are the octane levels of C16 and C14? I currently use Sunoco 110 leaded.

 

[jltcat]

This info is a copy of the info found on VP racing fuel's website:

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_01_fuels.html?mgiToken=D031D802DFB867184F#leaded



C14
Recommended for normally aspirated high compression, high rpm drag race applications, high compression PWC (230psi or higher), 4 stroke motorcycle racing and other normally aspirated engines operating 8500 RPM's or with compression ratios of 14:1 and over. NHRA Comp Eliminator Spec Fuel.

• Color: Yellow
• Lead: 4.23 Grams per gallon
• Motor Octane: 114
• Specific gravity: .690 at 60° F


C14 PLUS
Recommended for high rpm, ultra high compression engines over 14:1 when additional octane is required while maintaining the same burn rate and specific gravity of C14.

• Color: Clear
• Lead: 6 Grams per gallon
• Motor Octane: 115
• Specific gravity: .690 at 60° F


C15
Used in normally aspirated ultra high compression drag race, circle track, and road race applications over 14:1 compression ratios.

• Color: Green
• Lead: 4.23 Grams per gallon
• Motor Octane: 115
• Specific Gravity: 710 at 60° F


C16
Used in: Turbocharged engines, blown engines and nitrous applications. NHRA Comp Eliminator spec fuel. Recommended by the top nitrous oxide companies.

• Color: Blue
• Lead: 6 Grams per gallon
• Motor Octane: 117
• Specific gravity: .730 at 60° F

 

[larryd]

just so you guys know, when I got C16 at the track I either got a bad batch or someone just rooked me and gave me 93 or something because I ran C16 on the dyno today and it made a world of difference. I was able to run 28psi with no knock at all.

 

[blackawdturbo]

Larry I know you said you drained your tank the last time before running c16, however I noticed that if there is the slightest bit of 91-94 octane left in the tank (1/2 gallon) that the race gas octane rating ends up quite a bit lower giving me much more knock than usual.

 

[larryd]

yes.. the first time i did it I had about 1/8th tank of 93 left in the car.. last time i literally let the car run on the dyno while draining it till the car stalled.

 

[taylorspl]

Originally posted by larryd
just so you guys know, when I got C16 at the track I either got a bad batch or someone just rooked me and gave me 93 or something because I ran C16 on the dyno today and it made a world of difference. I was able to run 28psi with no knock at all.

It was on the dyno with 28psi and I don't see a dyno sheet WTF?