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Cylinder Head & Short Block: 4G63 cams, valvetrain, pistons, rods, stroker kits, 6-bolt swaps, hybrids, etc. Read this Forum's Strict Guidelines.

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Old 08-17-2004, 08:32 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #1 (permalink)
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Question

Turbo Comparison - FP3065 vs. GT35R


Guys,
I am trying to decide between two turbos here, the FP3065 and the GT35R. I have included the results of my recent research. Please inform me if I have any incorrect information. From the looks of things, only the turbine sides are different. If my information is correct, what do the differences mean in real life? Spool rpm differences, TQ & HP curve shapes, peak TQ & HP values and rpm, max boost pressure, and transient response are my selection criteria. Assume a standard 9.0:1 "build motor" with typical 1mm over valves, BJs stage 4 head, 272 or 414 cams, AEM EMS, etc.

Thanks,
Jay
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Old 08-17-2004, 12:04 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #2 (permalink)
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They'd probably be almost identical in spool time, flow, etc., but considering the reputation of Forced Performance for specifically dealing with DSMs, that's who I'd go with.


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Old 08-17-2004, 01:55 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #3 (permalink)
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3065, unless you have a stroker, in which case, a .82 35R.
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:14 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #4 (permalink)
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There are several other turbos that can work well. A non-ball bearing gt40 setup can make awesome power, spool great, and cost $500-600 less.

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Old 08-17-2004, 08:05 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #5 (permalink)
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How different would this choice be for a 4G64 motor? Also, Unreal, what other combinations seem to work better? Is the GT42R too big, even for a 4G64? Finally, what would be a compatable camshaft selection for this setup. My goal (for once) is to have all of my components compliment each other.

Thanks guys,
Jay
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Old 08-17-2004, 08:13 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #6 (permalink)
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Totally depends on how much power you want. We've sent out a few cool new hybrids that are working awesome. Call me up tommorow and we can discuss all the different options.

www.agpturbo.com

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Old 08-19-2004, 06:30 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #7 (permalink)
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On topic.


I'll help fill in some of your missing info poorboyj. The FP30 TH is .70 A/R, 9cm2.

It will also fit the GT37 TW and a T3/T4 bearing housing. We use this hot side setup with a large 67mm GT40 compressor wheel with a 750hp rating, 600+whp measured. This is called the FP3575 and is much less expensive than the GT30 ballistic concepts ball bearing CHRA's. Around $1k. Perfect for larger engines and bigger camshafts.

www.forcedperformance.com
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Old 08-19-2004, 08:21 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #8 (permalink)
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Robert,
Thanks for the information. I will probably give you guys a call to discuss this futrther, but does a GT35R fit the FP TH as well? I am really leaning towards the GT35R turbo. I just want to know if there are any other hot setups that I should consider as well.

Thanks,
Jay White
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Old 08-19-2004, 11:51 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #9 (permalink)
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The GT42R is going to be too big for any 2.3L street motor, in my opinion. It uses an exhaust housing and wheel that is larger than a typical T4 housing, and will make well over 1000 horsepower at the flywheel. I think the best way we can help you pick out a turbo is to give us a horsepower goal.

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Old 08-19-2004, 12:11 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #10 (permalink)
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Since I'm AWD and have never dyno'd I'm not sure what HP I should be looking. With my motor spec's above and typical supporting mod's, I don't want the turbo to be the bottleneck in my setup. If I had to give a number I'd say 600 HP, maybe a little more. I'm more concerned with running 140+ mph and mid 10's or so, car is full weight.

What type of camshaft compliments these sized turbos? I have been looking at Crower's 414, but I haven't heard much about their 415 cams?

Thanks again guys,
Jay White
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:31 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #11 (permalink)
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Assuming a 2945 pound curb weight for a 1G AWD DSM + 200 pound driver, that's going to take what, 550-600 horsepower to the wheels to hit 140 in the quarter? An FP3065 will do 550 and beyond, but you could move up to something even bigger like a GT67 if you want to. My turbo is going to Limit Engineering to have it upgraded to the new GT67 compressor wheel. It's said to spool like a 60mm wheel, and make power like a 70mm wheel! Just a thought, but if you want to stick to a mitsu flange the FP3065 will take you there.

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Old 08-20-2004, 06:01 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #12 (permalink)
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Sorry guys, I think like an engineer, I need raw data to compare. Here is my revised spreadsheet. Some of this is probably worng, please correct me if I am. Also, where would the GT67 fit in? I couldn't find much info on Limit Engineering's site.

Thanks,
Jay White
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Old 08-20-2004, 11:44 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poorboyj
Sorry guys, I think like an engineer, I need raw data to compare. Here is my revised spreadsheet. Some of this is probably worng, please correct me if I am. Also, where would the GT67 fit in? I couldn't find much info on Limit Engineering's site.

Thanks,
Jay White
I'm not 100% positive on this info because the GT67 has only been sold for less than a year, so there isn't a whole lot out there about it. It flows about the same as a regular PT67/T67/TO4R turbo at 75 pounds per minute, but with the new impeller design it is a whole bunch more efficient. GT67 vs. PT67 is like comparing a 60-1 to an SC61, they both will put out about the same amount of peak horsepower, but the SC61 has a much more efficient wheel so it will give you lower IAT's, and more horsepower at lower boost levels.



There's a picture of the GT67 wheel, notice how it has a "dual inlet" on the fins unlike the single inlet like a normal turbo. Best bet is to call up the guys at Limit Engineering, they're friendly as hell and always willing to talk on the phone. 9284537321.

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Old 08-20-2004, 12:13 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #14 (permalink)
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I would love for my new turbo(gt3251) to be broken down to stats like that. where do you get all this info?
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:26 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #15 (permalink)
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Is the 3251 something that FP used to sell? It doesn't make sense in the naming schemes I am familiar with...

I would venture a guess that it MIGHT be a GT32 CHRA and turbine wheel, with some 51 lb/min compressor wheel. No idea though, just a guess!
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Old 08-20-2004, 03:40 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poorboyj
Here is my revised spreadsheet.
Jay-

Where did you find the information about the 3575's compressor wheel? It doesn't match the information in my Garrett catalog, although that doesn't necessarily mean much.

Also, I am not sure why, but your chart says that the 35R uses a compressor wheel from the GT40. I don't think that's right, I think it uses the GT35R compressor wheel , which is the same exducer size but a different trim (and therefore different inducer size) than the GT40.

I'm sure you could get one made with the GT40 wheel though!
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Old 08-20-2004, 05:36 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #17 (permalink)
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I'm willing to bet that the GT67 or whatever the official names is, is the same compressor used in the new HKS T04Z and the T04R. If so then here are the dimensions.

63 Trim
Inducer Diameter: 66.7mm
Exducer Diameter: 84mm
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Old 08-23-2004, 09:37 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #18 (permalink)
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To whomever asked, I got this info from sifting through the web, so I have my doubts about its accuracy.

I may have found a good deal on a GT3540 (65lb/min) locally.

1. Does any one know if it will fit the FP turbine housing?

2. Are there any benifits of sticking with the Garrett turbine housing and switching manifolds?

2. Also, will there be a big(read: noticable) difference in spool between the ball bearing GT3540R, and this GT3540 turbo?

3. Finally, are there gains to be had by switching to a tubular or "aftermarket" cast manifold?

Currently, I am running a ported, and supposedly extrude honed, exhaust manifold off Dan Cokic's race car.

Jay
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Old 08-23-2004, 12:46 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swordfish
I'm willing to bet that the GT67 or whatever the official names is, is the same compressor used in the new HKS T04Z and the T04R. If so then here are the dimensions.

63 Trim
Inducer Diameter: 66.7mm
Exducer Diameter: 84mm
I thought the HKS TO4R still used the traditional older Garrett TO4R wheel, not the new one? But yes, that appears to be the GT67 wheel.

Here's a little snippet from www.turbobuick.com

Quote:
Originally posted by ijames
The GT67 wheel is available with three different turbines. All of these are large shaft turbos, and cost $1075 with the TO4E compressor housing and $1175 with the TO4S housing. The smallest uses the TO4 69 trim turbine (inducer diameter 2.92", exducer diameter 2.42"), the same turbine used in the PTE53, PTE54, and TE61 turbos. None of the common TR turbos uses this combination of such a large compressor and small turbine so there doesn't seem to be anything to compare it to. The next one uses the TO4 P trim turbine, and the last one uses the new GT-Q trim turbine. The best comparison for the P trim version is the Precision PT66, Limit Engineering TE-45A, and Turbonetics T66 (with P trim) which all use the T66 compressor wheel and P trim turbine. According to Joe the GT67 will outspool these and make a few more hp. From what I've seen, most people don't step up to a Q trim turbine until the compressor is 72 mm or larger, but if the GT-Q can really outspool the old P trim then the GT67 Q may turn out to be the most popular of the three - time will tell.
Bolded the most important part. The GT67 makes more power than a T66 or T67, spools significantly quicker, and is very efficient at low and high boost. It seems like an ideal wheel for a mid displacement (2-3 litres) car that wants to make a whole shitload of power, and yet wants to have good spool and still make good power on low boost for pump gas. I was told this should spool like a 62-1, and make power like a T70!

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Old 08-23-2004, 02:13 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpt4321
Jay-

Where did you find the information about the 3575's compressor wheel? It doesn't match the information in my Garrett catalog, although that doesn't necessarily mean much.

Also, I am not sure why, but your chart says that the 35R uses a compressor wheel from the GT40. I don't think that's right, I think it uses the GT35R compressor wheel , which is the same exducer size but a different trim (and therefore different inducer size) than the GT40.

I'm sure you could get one made with the GT40 wheel though!
Call FP and ask for the info on the FP3575. It's not a secret. If you're nice, you might even get a compressor map.
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