Welding cans together

[Gamble97]

After a few tries tonight I'm starting to get some where. Much credit to anyone that can get this done!

Using a miller diversion 180 (no balance and no pulse features)
30amps, 15cfh, 1/16th ceriated tungsten and #8 gas lens

[whiteboyz]

WOW, Nice. I was always told that was imposible and could not be done due to the cans being to thin. , Now I know it can be done. To bad I dont own a tig. One day I will. Just not sure of a decent one to get to start with.

Anyways congrats on the cans.

[turboglenn]

Ther's two sayingsthat go with welding cans together

1.) the guy's a good welder

2.) he's practiced welding cans, but is he anygood at structural parts?

i use to weld cans and rzor blades edg to edge, and i was good at that long before i was good at sructural welding but you've got a great machine for both, great job!!

[Lofty]

simply AWESOME!

[CODE4]

I see cratering nice though, many have trouble with heat control on thin metals.

Originally Posted by whiteboyz

WOW, Nice. I was always told that was imposible and could not be done due to the cans being to thin. , Now I know it can be done. To bad I dont own a tig. One day I will. Just not sure of a decent one to get to start with.

Anyways congrats on the cans.

A can is a lot thicker on the ends though, keep that in mind. Who are these folks that "always say it is impossible?" Obviously they do not have welding experience.

[Gamble97]

Originally Posted by turboglenn

Ther's two sayingsthat go with welding cans together

1.) the guy's a good welder

2.) he's practiced welding cans, but is he anygood at structural parts?

i use to weld cans and rzor blades edg to edge, and i was good at that long before i was good at sructural welding but you've got a great machine for both, great job!!

Glen, maybe you can give me some insight on welding this. When I first tried doing this I set my welder to 10amps and just barely touched the peddle and it would put a hole in it immediately. When I set the machine for 30 amps and gave it MORE gas it would puddle before it would blow a hole. I can't wrap my brain around why more amperage would help it puddle and less would make a hole faster.

And the other half of the can is a big hole, this half came out good. So I'm going to keep practicing! Wish I had balance and pulse features lol but none the less I am still very happy. I had an overwhelming feeling off accomplishment last night when I did this.

[H@xtGSX]

Capacitance from the welder to start the arc would be my guess. I don't TIG very often though so I am guessing. When I do have to TIG something, I usually borrow a friend of mine's self adjusting high frequency unit he paid $18K for use in his shop... that thing basically does everything for you. It's completely automatic. It senses the voltage being used, material thickness and type, the work speed, and calculates the exact current and gas needed multiple times a second to weld just about anything together perfectly. All you have to do is trace a line and feed the filler, and it's a no lift spark, so getting it started is easy. It's feels like cheating, because a complete novice could weld 2 beer cans together with it on their first try. I did... and I am only barely adequate at TIG the normal way. To do that without a machine like that is beyond my skill right now, that's for sure. Nicely done.

[black_gst]

Nice!

Originally Posted by Gamble97

And the other half of the can is a big hole, this half came out good. So I'm going to keep practicing!

I was just about to ask about the other side of the can

[turboglenn]

Originally Posted by Gamble97

Glen, maybe you can give me some insight on welding this. When I first tried doing this I set my welder to 10amps and just barely touched the peddle and it would put a hole in it immediately. When I set the machine for 30 amps and gave it MORE gas it would puddle before it would blow a hole. I can't wrap my brain around why more amperage would help it puddle and less would make a hole faster.

And the other half of the can is a big hole, this half came out good. So I'm going to keep practicing! Wish I had balance and pulse features lol but none the less I am still very happy. I had an overwhelming feeling off accomplishment last night when I did this.

A few tips that make a huge difference are to get into the "hidden menu" and chnge the "start amps" (when you first fire the pedal the machine will usually kick out about 40 amps and then ram down to your setttings, this is to help the arc start..theres abutton you can hold whle turning themachine on that will allow you access to these settings (should be in your book or can be found on the miller welding forums) set your start amps as low as you can get them to still strikethe arc with the tiny tungsten and on the thin material (i can do it now starting at 40, but when learning it was best to set them to 15, you cna also sset your pre-argon flow a little longer to make the arc start easier as well, it's the ionized situation n the argon filled air that helps p[romote arc starting

Next things is to switch to the next smaller tungsten below 1/16t, forget the size but looks like mechanical pencil lead use a gas lense or up, don't matter much there, main thing is to move fast or pulse manually with the pedal (i never use built in pulsiing) Another trick for cans and razors are to use MIG wire in aluminum for cans and in SS for razor blades as it takes less heat to meltthe mass of filler rod and gives lesschnce of craterig the cans/razors


also, balance isn'tthat important when you have skill and clean properly, it's best use on dirty cast materials..one thign you want ot do isscuff the cans with scotch brite pads as there's a clear coating on them to keep aluminum oxide from forming so it's like yuou're welding through paint

on razors,use about 10-15 amps, lay themon something to "sink" the heat and go FAST as you can..i've seen a guy weld aluminum foin before and he did about 6 inches ofit in under 5 seconds, using autogenous welding (no filler)

practice, and cleaning are the best ways to iprove welds, clean with brushes dedicated to each metal then wipewith acetone and a clean clotch..don't use brake clean it leaves harmfull residue that's very bad for you aand your weld

[Gamble97]

That helps a lot Glenn thanks. I've seen people do pop cans with 3/32 tungsten too.
I'm going to look up the manual for my welder now.


Edit: manual shows nothing of a hidden menu. I'm now wondering...

[lowboost13]

Originally Posted by whiteboyz

WOW, Nice. I was always told that was imposible and could not be done due to the cans being to thin. , Now I know it can be done. To bad I dont own a tig. One day I will. Just not sure of a decent one to get to start with.

Anyways congrats on the cans.

Its possible to even weld tin foil!

[turboglenn]

Originally Posted by Gamble97

That helps a lot Glenn thanks. I've seen people do pop cans with 3/32 tungsten too.
I'm going to look up the manual for my welder now.


Edit: manual shows nothing of a hidden menu. I'm now wondering...

my manual doesn't have them either, just google "diversion 180 hidden menus" and you'll get options for like 2 menus, one displays total arc time and usage and the other lets you tune the start and other settings for the welding modes both AC and DC

I printed mine out and stuck them in the manual, one of them i hold the amperage button while turning it on, then another one i have to hold 2 buttons.. the miller weldig forums will have all that stuff in there pages too

[urbansmoker1]

im so going to try this when i pick up my miller diversion 180 tomorow! ill post up as well am i hearing right that the 180 doesnt come with built in pulse or balance? interesting i thought it did. although it does have a very simple looking interface. i guess they leave it up to you and the pedal. im going to try and get ahold of a flexlock torch head also

[ec17pse]

Originally Posted by Gamble97

Glen, maybe you can give me some insight on welding this. When I first tried doing this I set my welder to 10amps and just barely touched the peddle and it would put a hole in it immediately. When I set the machine for 30 amps and gave it MORE gas it would puddle before it would blow a hole. I can't wrap my brain around why more amperage would help it puddle and less would make a hole faster.

And the other half of the can is a big hole, this half came out good. So I'm going to keep practicing! Wish I had balance and pulse features lol but none the less I am still very happy. I had an overwhelming feeling off accomplishment last night when I did this.

haha even the start up pulse can put a hole in it, our machines allow to choose from 1-250 amps and any starting amps aswell but with your machine is pretty good if you done this, ive tig'd many thin items and its blown through but i didnt set my starting amps low

[Calan]

Looks like I have a good reason to finish off that 12 pack now.

Wonder if my cheap little Eastwood can pull it off?

[Gamble97]

Originally Posted by urbansmoker1

im so going to try this when i pick up my miller diversion 180 tomorow! ill post up as well am i hearing right that the 180 doesnt come with built in pulse or balance? interesting i thought it did. although it does have a very simple looking interface. i guess they leave it up to you and the pedal. im going to try and get ahold of a flexlock torch head also

No pulse and no balance. Balance is pre set. Post/pre flow is pre set. It's nice because you don't have to mess with anything but for doing things like valve covers balance would come in handy.
Pulse with percentages and ramp up/ramp down would confuse the crap out of me so I'm kind of glad I don't have it. When and if I decide to sell mine I would consider an HTP.

Look up the weldcraft wp-9 torch. That is what most people move over to.

Glenn, do you have the same welder as me??

Craig, the eastwood should have no problem. If I can do you, you can do it.

[Calan]

Originally Posted by Gamble97

If I can do you, you can do it.

Ehhh... nobody is doing me buddy. At least nobody with something hangin'.

(It figures. You drink a few beers with a guy at a shootout a couple years ago, and the next thing you know...)

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by Gamble97

No pulse and no balance. Balance is pre set. Post/pre flow is pre set. It's nice because you don't have to mess with anything but for doing things like valve covers balance would come in handy.
Pulse with percentages and ramp up/ramp down would confuse the crap out of me so I'm kind of glad I don't have it. When and if I decide to sell mine I would consider an HTP.

Look up the weldcraft wp-9 torch. That is what most people move over to.

Glenn, do you have the same welder as me??

Craig, the eastwood should have no problem. If I can do you, you can do it.

the lincon i was working on had the ramp up ramp down its not that hard to understand just basically eases off the amps slowly cooling your material instead of a straight off, same for ramp up, just warms the material a little more before going to your set amperage, the good thing is this miller sounds like its ment to be a turn it on and go type of welder which is fine by me. especially cause it will do everything ill ever need it to. manifolds are going to be my specialty someday when i have enough practice. perhapse to offer to other members when i get a good handle on it. my first atempt is going to be a devided T3 for the HX40 and after that ill try a devided T3 topmount ... lots of donut tubing in my future lol

[Gamble97]

Originally Posted by Calan

Ehhh... nobody is doing me buddy. At least nobody with something hangin'.

(It figures. You drink a few beers with a guy at a shootout a couple years ago, and the next thing you know...)

This has to be my best typo yet!

Originally Posted by urbansmoker1

the lincon i was working on had the ramp up ramp down its not that hard to understand just basically eases off the amps slowly cooling your material instead of a straight off, same for ramp up, just warms the material a little more before going to your set amperage, the good thing is this miller sounds like its ment to be a turn it on and go type of welder which is fine by me. especially cause it will do everything ill ever need it to. manifolds are going to be my specialty someday when i have enough practice. perhapse to offer to other members when i get a good handle on it. my first atempt is going to be a devided T3 for the HX40 and after that ill try a devided T3 topmount ... lots of donut tubing in my future lol

I want to build a manifold so bad but I have a few problems:
1) I don't have a race car or a fun car. Just a dd
2) My SS welds are concave and don't look as pretty as aluminum or mild. So not sure if I'm doing it wrong?
3) i'm not setup for back purging
4) I still don't have a race car...
5) Yep still no race car.
6) damn it when will I get another car

[godschylde777]

Originally Posted by Calan

Ehhh... nobody is doing me buddy. At least nobody with something hangin'.

(It figures. You drink a few beers with a guy at a shootout a couple years ago, and the next thing you know...)

Haha that was funny. Kool beans on the cans I can't weld. But never the least

[Calan]

Originally Posted by Gamble97

This has to be my best typo yet!

Yep. That one is going in the archives.

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by Gamble97

This has to be my best typo yet!



I want to build a manifold so bad but I have a few problems:
1) I don't have a race car or a fun car. Just a dd
2) My SS welds are concave and don't look as pretty as aluminum or mild. So not sure if I'm doing it wrong?
3) i'm not setup for back purging
4) I still don't have a race car...
5) Yep still no race car.
6) damn it when will I get another car

i only have a DD GSX but i have a buddy with a spare 6 bolt block and i was gonna get a head and we were going to mock it up like that.

your welds are concave because your amperage is too high or you arent moving the bead fast enough. cold=convex hot=concave

there is also this guy with a 6 bolt long block local for a decent price but hes sorta only state local lol 100 bucks to get it shipped though. anyway a spare long block is a great mock up for manifolds!


@ above typo

Originally Posted by Gamble97

Look up the weldcraft wp-9 torch. That is what most people move over to.

flex loc seems to be a better condender, thin and a 360 rotation of the head. but since the 180 is hardwired to the machine you have to add the 12.5' cable to the torch end making it 25' but what ever.

[Gamble97]

Miller doesn't recommend using a 25' lead on the 180 and 165. Someone on the welding forum did it then went back to the 12.5' but never said why.

[bmoha7321]

Co worker told me he could weld a aluminum can. I told him he was full of Chit because mostly he was full of chit. He brought in a can. But what he had done was cut it in two right around the middle then weld it back together. It was impressive but there was still some doubt if he actually did it. So he did another one but had his brother record it on his phone as he did it. Turns out he welded those big stainless steel milk containers for 17 years. Said he had to stop because "chasing a bead will make you crazy" and he said even with proper eye protection it damages your eyes overtime. He was crazy. I can at least vouch for that

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by Gamble97

Miller doesn't recommend using a 25' lead on the 180 and 165. Someone on the welding forum did it then went back to the 12.5' but never said why.

I got the 180 today didn't get flex loc gonna just run what it comes with I'm pretty stoked about it gonna try and do two cans tomorrow

[urbansmoker1]

Originally Posted by bmoha7321

Co worker told me he could weld a aluminum can. I told him he was full of Chit because mostly he was full of chit. He brought in a can. But what he had done was cut it in two right around the middle then weld it back together. It was impressive but there was still some doubt if he actually did it. So he did another one but had his brother record it on his phone as he did it. Turns out he welded those big stainless steel milk containers for 17 years. Said he had to stop because "chasing a bead will make you crazy" and he said even with proper eye protection it damages your eyes overtime. He was crazy. I can at least vouch for that

Prob needed a level 12 shade

[turboglenn]

run a shade 9 for anything under 130amps,and up to 150...at 150 and over move to a shade 11 or a 10 if ..use the lighter of the two if you weld less than what would be neded i a working enviroment, use the darker as you either get better or are welding for longer hours..,

another tip, ato tints are great for learning but once you weld with onhe foir 8 hours straight even that 20 thousandths of a second reaction time builds up and flash bursn you