Thsi FMIC better then a upgraded SMIC?

[OneFastEclipse]

I seen Dejontool has a FMIC that is actually two stock side mounts put together. Will that flow more then the upgraded SMIC they sell? Do any of you know if it will fill the whole front bumper on a 97-99? Thanks!

 

[Spidey]

From what I've heard, "2 wrongs don't make a right," meaning 2 crappy stock cores put together aren't going to be all that great. Not putting down Dejon's stuff at all, I just think you'd be better off with their SMIC or maybe ADFX's SMIC. 16x7 will not fill the 97-99 bumper as far as I know, maybe you could measure?

 

[OneFastEclipse]

I would have to agree with you one that. Anyone actually used this thing though?

 

[Plague]

I had that front mount for a while because I was trying for the sleeper look. Turned around and got a new one (bigger). If you are going to pay the money for a front mount dont get something you will regret. The core I have now is 26"-7"-2 3/4". I wish I got this one to begin with instead of wasting my money.

 

[dsmturboawd]

^^ youre speaking like size has something do to with how intercoolers perform.

 

[Plague]

Yes it does when they get heat soacked faster than a larger one.
Did you ever have this front mount? Chances are, NO. I am speaking from experience. By the time I would be in 3rd and into 4th I would get an increasingly large amount of knock.

Stop being a smart ass and just add helpful information rather than your ignorant comments.

Hope this helps OneFasteclipse.

 

[dsmturboawd]

i dont have to own it to say what im saying.

intercooler size has nothing to do with anything.

 

[dls93tsi]

Intercooler size DOES have a lot to do with it.

Think about it. why get a big fmic over a smic if size doesnt have anything to do with it. the whole reason for an intercooler is to lower the intake air temp between the turbo, where heat transfered from the turbine and from hot oil on the seals and all heat up the inlet air in the comp. housing, and the intake, where the air actually goes into the cylinder.

The whole idea behind lowering intake temp is so 1. the O2 molecules in the air are denser, therefore giving the cylinder more oxygen to burn(cold air is denser in O2 than hot air, which is denser in CO2).
2. so the temp of the air going into the cylinder is lower, therefore lowering the cylinder temperatures.

Now, with a small smic, or even two smics welded together, will not give you the desired EFFICIENCY increase as a normal FMIC. efficiency is the key, in how much the air flowing through will be cooled. the smaller the amount of air going over the core, the less efficient it will be. the more air going over the core, the more efficient it will be.

There. now maybe you understand why intercooler size DOES have everything to do with it

 

[dsmturboawd]

guess i should toss that supra smic for a starion fmic. ill tell phil beers to rip off that crappy 1g smic too, whats that guy thinking? if his ic was bigger, he'd be way faster.

The whole idea behind lowering intake temp is so 1. the O2 molecules in the air are denser, therefore giving the cylinder more oxygen to burn(cold air is denser in O2 than hot air, which is denser in CO2).
2. so the temp of the air going into the cylinder is lower, therefore lowering the cylinder temperatures.

irrelevant.

your last paragraph was the only one worth reading imo, as you discussed efficiency rather than size. efficiency is 100000x more important than size ever will be.

 

[Groomz]

Efficiency is psi related to cfm. An intercooler can be efficient at 15psi for 300cfms. Start flowing 500cfms at 15psi and you're in trouble.

"efficiency is 100000x more important than size ever will be."

Wrong x1000000. If that were the case every high horsepower turbo car would have a small but highly efficient intercooler. Big turbos aren't always good, but a large intercooler is. Enjoy.

 

[Cesar]

So if I got this right, a intercooler is only efficient as long as the turbo does not outflow it?

The greater the intercooler dimensions, the less likely it is for the intercooler to become ineficient?

How are intercooler rated? are they rated?

Does it have anything to do with how much time the compressed air spends inside the core?

 

[dls93tsi]

The efficiency of an intercooler has a direct correlation with its size.

what factors are looked at when determining how efficient an intercooler is? 2 things - 1. flow capacity (cfm) 2. temperature change

efficiency is 100000x more important than size ever will be.

What??? OK. I see what you are trying to say, but no. the larger the intercooler, the higher the flow rate, unless it is a K-mart closing sale special. Also, the larger the intercooler, the more surface area of the core is exposed to heat transfer, or the tendency for the air outside the core to "suck" the heat out of the air inside the core. therefore, the bigger the core the more the intercooler will become MORE EFFICIENT. Not to mention, the larger the intercooler, the more the air being forced through the core can slow down and be exposed to the heat transfer energy. think about it, if air is being forced through say 2in intercooler piping but then is dumped into an intercooler with a much larger size than 2 in., it can expand, and slow down

I am well aware that some people have been able to find gains and have tuned with small core smics, but for the average tuner who just wants to get the most power, they are going to go with a big ass fmic because they flow more, and give more horsepower, PERIOD. I would suggest getitng rid of that supra smic, JUST LIKE THE SUPRA OWNER DID. if it wasnt good enough for the supras, why the hell would it be good enough for a modded dsm??

 

[dls93tsi]

To answer your question,

How are intercooler rated? are they rated?

Yes, they are rated by efficiency. I found a good efficiency calculator, you plug in you air temp before and after the intercooler, and the ambient air temp outside the intercooler. you can get intercooler temp gauges, i have seen them its like a normal temp gauge but w/ two needles(for the inlet and and outlet in intercooler). If you want to get efficiency % before you buy, the manufacturer should have that info if you contact them or some shops might have that info.

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by dls93tsi
therefore, the bigger the core the more the intercooler will become MORE EFFICIENT.

WRONG

Originally posted by dls93tsi
Not to mention, the larger the intercooler, the more the air being forced through the core can slow down and be exposed to the heat transfer energy. think about it, if air is being forced through say 2in intercooler piping but then is dumped into an intercooler with a much larger size than 2 in., it can expand, and slow down.

why would you want it to slow down. if it slows down, that simply means you have an inefficient core. you know, poor flowing, pressure loss, etc etc. the entire purpose of a turboed car is to force more air into a motor as quickly as possible and youre takling about making an intercooler, who's only purpose is to cool, slow down that air. intercoolers dont work by slowing down the air. come on, youre arguing against yourself now.

Originally posted by dls93tsi
I would suggest getitng rid of that supra smic, JUST LIKE THE SUPRA OWNER DID. if it wasnt good enough for the supras, why the hell would it be good enough for a modded dsm??

this is by far the most retarded and incorrect comment ive heard on a message board in months. who are you kidding? think about what you're saying here.

Originally posted by Groomz
Wrong x1000000. If that were the case every high horsepower turbo car would have a small but highly efficient intercooler. Big turbos aren't always good, but a large intercooler is. Enjoy.

most high hp turbo cars have small air/water ic's, but we can keep this to a air/air intercooler discussion. true, most high hp cars are running good sized fmics. ok, i give in. nowhere was i arguing a smic is best over a fmic. however, i gurantee you that when a owner of a high hp turbo car is choosing a fmic, their least consern is if its 20" long or 30" long. generally, theyre conserned with whats not going to flow like shit and give a terrible pressure loss. trading huge cfm differences for minor cooling abilities is rediclous.

big turbos arent always good, and usually a big ass fmic isnt either.

 

[gsx91boy]

Originally posted by dls93tsi
I would suggest getitng rid of that supra smic, JUST LIKE THE SUPRA OWNER DID. if it wasnt good enough for the supras, why the hell would it be good enough for a modded dsm??

The guy I just bought my MKIV SMIC from for $60 made 450whp on it. For $60 it makes a hell of an upgrade over the stock smic for a 14b/16g car.

Shep ran 9's on this dinky thing:

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I fail to see the logic behind this comment:

think about it, if air is being forced through say 2in intercooler piping but then is dumped into an intercooler with a much larger size than 2 in., it can expand, and slow down

-aaron

 

[Cesar]

Originally posted by dls93tsi
To answer your question,



Yes, they are rated by efficiency. I found a good efficiency calculator, you plug in you air temp before and after the intercooler, and the ambient air temp outside the intercooler. you can get intercooler temp gauges, i have seen them its like a normal temp gauge but w/ two needles(for the inlet and and outlet in intercooler). If you want to get efficiency % before you buy, the manufacturer should have that info if you contact them or some shops might have that info.

What kind of sensors did you use? How are they monitored? Could you be more specific?
Has anyone else done this?

 

[Cesar]

http://www.lindseyracing.com/tempg.htm

Found it.... I should have more patience.
It is a little steep. $250???
I'l just roll up my sleeves, and head down to radio shack...

 

[crzsomang]

Originally posted by gsx91boy

Shep ran 9's on this dinky thing:

Since when is 22" x 14" x 3.5" IC considered small?

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by Cesar
http://www.lindseyracing.com/tempg.htm

Found it.... I should have more patience.
It is a little steep. $250???
I'l just roll up my sleeves, and head down to radio shack...

perhaps you could use a 40 dollar autometer water temp gauge. *shrugs*

 

[Cesar]

i guess I could, but I would need two probes, and two guages. I was looking for something that would display the temp change as well, instead of having to calculated it everytime, although I'm sure I'd get use to it.
I appreciate the help though...

 

[gsx91boy]

Originally posted by crzsomang
Since when is 22" x 14" x 3.5" IC considered small?

Well the core isn't 22" wide and 14" tall first off, and secondly you'll see cores in excess of 24" wide, with big bumper cutouts for really tall cores these days. There are some massive cores being run, which aren't always necessary, as case in point with Shep running 9's on buschur's old race core.

If you want to measure intake temps before/after core, you can get surface temp probes, which aren't like big k-type probes you stick in your exh mani. They typically have ranges up to ~250 deg F. Get yourself a free catalog from Spruce Aircraft and go from there, or search for computer temp probes w/lcd displays or something.

-aaron