honing cylinder walls

[1fast97gsx]

I need to do this because I have a few scratches up my cylinder walls, especially number 4. Compression was good ( 175 175 176 176 ), however the car is burning a little oil and the scratches just bother me. I have the head and oil pan off .. just wondering if you can give me tips on this.

1) With the head and oil pan off ... its only 2 bolts and the bearings for each piston right? It just slides straight up along with the rod?

2) Any special way to use the honing tool or just move it up and down a few times?

Any advice would be nice. Thanks.

 

[BUCK]

1) With the head and oil pan off ... its only 2 bolts and the bearings for each piston right? It just slides straight up along with the rod?

Yeah - but you MUST keep each rod with it's own rod cap - replace rod bearings & piston rings of course - I loosen rod bolts with crank & rod at low point - remove rod cap - then spin crank to high point & knock rod up with wooden dowel & hammer - be DAMN careful not to nick crank journals with rod bolts!

I clean the piston walls then spray em down with WD 40 or any light oil then use a Drill motor on high speed, Battery powered is fine - Moving up & down till a nice cross hatch picks up on the entire bore - It doesn't take long so don't over-do it! CLEAN the stones THOROUGHLY between each cylinder - If #4 is worst I'd do that one first - The hardest part with a DSM is those damn Squirters - If you hit them it knocks the stones awry - BE CAREFUL when you get low in the bore! Clean again when done & coat with heavier gear oil or Engine assembly lube.

 

[1fast97gsx]

ok thanks man .. I'm gonna give it a shot this week.

 

[1fast97gsx]

if I "Overdue" it I will basically leak compression right? The only way to fix that would be boring it out and new pistons? What do rings and bearings usually sell for? Thanks.

 

[92awddsm]

Rings $68 rod bearings $28 www.partsdinosaur.com Owned by bruce roller. I have dealt with him several times and my part are always here in 2 days(hes in AZ, Im in VA) Great person to deal with. He can get other brands of parts but just list ITM. Just email him.

 

[rph74]

As Buck said, it is essential that you keep the pistons in the same place. Place them in gallon size ziploc bags when you pull EACH piston and rod cap off and mark them. To prevent the rod bolts from nicking the crank journals, put a piece of rubber hose over the bolts when removing the pistons. Also, be sure to put rubber hose on when reinstalling the pistons!

I had a machine shop professionally clean and ring the pistons for me. For $5 per piston it saved a lot of hassle IMO. 13 years and 187k made my pistons look real bad, and I wanted them to inspect everything before I put it back together. Be sure to emphasize that they need to stamp the pistons (1-4) and keep them in order!

Make sure that when you replace the rod bearings that the mating surfaces are squeaky clean. Put some assembly grease on the crank journal and the rod bearings (the side that meets the crank NOT the side that meets the rod and cap!)

Here's a pic of my 13 year old pistons all cleaned up.

 

[rph74]

Also don't forget to stagger your ring gaps properly!

 

[BUCK]

What I found tricky with the rings is putting the "step" on one the rings in the correct direction - I'm so old & blind I could hardly see it - had to feel it.

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by 1fast97gsx
Any advice would be nice. Thanks.

Here is my advice. If you don't understand absolutly everything that has been stated in this thread then don't bother trying this for yourself. It's not as easy as it sounds. Good ol' uncle BUCK there has given you some great info. Just make sure you read your factory service manual as your doing this as you need to know a few things about taking pistons out and putting them back in.

Not trying to flame or anything just don't want to see you end up with a motor that doesn't run properly and not know why. If your not sure on anything ask first or have somebody else finish the job.

When putting the rings back in make sure you stager them properly as rph74 has said and do not, for the love of god, try and install pistons without a ring compressor.

 

[1fast97gsx]

well going into it I just had a slight idea on what to do but not really. I talked to a mechanic at my work and read the posts on here so I think I got it down. One of my friends is going to help me do it and he has done if before so that should help. Thanks a lot everyone.

 

[1fast97gsx]

Originally posted by rph74
As Buck said, it is essential that you keep the pistons in the same place. Place them in gallon size ziploc bags when you pull EACH piston and rod cap off and mark them. To prevent the rod bolts from nicking the crank journals, put a piece of rubber hose over the bolts when removing the pistons. Also, be sure to put rubber hose on when reinstalling the pistons!

I had a machine shop professionally clean and ring the pistons for me. For $5 per piston it saved a lot of hassle IMO. 13 years and 187k made my pistons look real bad, and I wanted them to inspect everything before I put it back together. Be sure to emphasize that they need to stamp the pistons (1-4) and keep them in order!

Make sure that when you replace the rod bearings that the mating surfaces are squeaky clean. Put some assembly grease on the crank journal and the rod bearings (the side that meets the crank NOT the side that meets the rod and cap!)

Here's a pic of my 13 year old pistons all cleaned up.

Any machine shop will do this?

 

[DSMJim]

Sounds like your ready, good luck.

 

[rph74]

Originally posted by 1fast97gsx
Any machine shop will do this?

I would call first, but I don't see why a machine shop wouldn't do this for a nominal fee.

 

[1fast97gsx]

well I had a few people look at it and the majority say it can't be honed out ... Would I be best to try and and if it doesn't work then have it bored or what would you guys do? ( I looked at it for a while and a few of the scratches can be felt with the tip of my fingernail, yet they don't look very deep ... I can barely feel them ) I started another thread on "boring cylinders" ... thanks for all your patience and help.

 

[dsmturboawd]

you might have to go .020 over.

not to hijack, but can you use oem rings on a .020 over? tia.

 

[1fast97gsx]

well they make oem oversized rings so you can keep the stock pistons and just get rings from the dealership. I just don't know if I don't want to just replace everything while it's all out and apart. If the stock bottom end is capable of consistant 11s with a 1g head I see no need to change it...

 

[Suparata]

Originally posted by 1fast97gsx
well they make oem oversized rings so you can keep the stock pistons and just get rings from the dealership. I just don't know if I don't want to just replace everything while it's all out and apart. If the stock bottom end is capable of consistant 11s with a 1g head I see no need to change it...

Oversized rings are for oversized pistons in oversized bores. They are oversized and they cannot be used in a sock-sized bore on a stock-sized pistons.
The question is do you still have stock-sized pistons in stock-sized bores?What I'm trying to say here is that you are approaching this hole thing wrong! First thing that has to be done before you make a decision weather to ball-hone the cyl bores or not is measure those bores and pistons. Cyl walls wear out in time and get tapered and out-of-round which makes impossible for a new set of round rings to seal. That's why in this case changing the rings only make things worst even with all the cross-hatch that is made with a ball-hone.
I know it's great to work to do yourself all the work on your car but you have to understand that there are things that have to be done by specialized people with certain equipment in the right environment.
I'm talking about your machine shop. Take your stuff there and have it checked out and go from there.
Do it right and you will do it once.

 

[dsmturboawd]

i just pulled my new 90 motor out today. cyl 4 has zero compression and i figured i might have to go .020 over if the rings chewed up the walls.

i wanted to keep the pistons, but if i have to go .020 due to scratched walls, ill have to get new pistons from what youre saying.

just to clarify, mitsu offers oem pistons for .020. they also offer oem rings for .020.

thanks and again, sorry for hijack.

 

[Suparata]

You got it.
Standard means stock-sized components and oversized is just what the word says-BIGGER.
Mitch.

 

[dsmturboawd]

excellent, thank you.

 

[1fast97gsx]

oh ok I get it now. I thought mitsu offer rings that were the same diameter on the inside jsut a little wider. So basically a .020 over bore using stock pistons and just wider rings. I understand now though that you need over sized pistons as well. And yes, I understand that this all needs to be very precise and too much honing will oblong the walls. I am pulling the motor one of these days and taking it to a machine shop and having it bored .02 or .03 over. I am then putting in JE pistons and Eagle rods. Thanks for all your help.

btw ... I started another thread " boring cylinders" if you want to check up on my progress read that one. Thanks.

 

[Suparata]

You're doing the right thing.
Make sure thet a Torque Plate( http://www.engintecs.com/gallery/album07/Torque_hone ) is used on a Decked block (http://www.engintecs.com/gallery/album07/Ross). Do not do it without one and also use ARP studs and a MLS gasket. Both of these have to be used during machining and must be torqued at assembly to the same spec as they were torqued when machined.Let them know what fasteners you will use and stick with that.
If ARP Main Studs are used have them Align Hone (http://www.engintecs.com/gallery/album07/Align_hone3) the mains.
Enjoy
Mitch.

 

[dsmturboawd]

whats the largest over bore they go on oem pistons? thanks.

 

[Suparata]

.040" over.
Mitch.

 

[dsmturboawd]

well the walls are in excellent shape, the piston seems to have a flat side on it *shrugs*.

anyways, i guess ill do 95, ahem 2g, pistons. theyre press fit still and all that good stuff, right? (would search, but cant search for "95" or "2g")