Tial Wastegate Springs and 30+ psi

[kilurv8]

I am new to the external wastegate style of boost control. I have avoided going to one due to cost constraints but I have decided to bite the bullet and switch. I recently aquired an Extreme 2.5ss o2 housing dumped and a tial 40mm gate with a 1bar spring. My boost controller is an EVC EZ.

Now I have read in a couple different places that if you run the tial on a 1 Bar spring, it is only supposed to give you just under 2X the spring pressure for the max amount of boost. So if this is true that would mean only 25 to 26 psi. Now I am looking for some real world answers from people that have run 30+ psi successfully on a tial with an EBC and what springs they have. Or if you know if this is true.

I also do not know if this matters based on if you use just the side nipple and run like an internal gate or use both and run it properly with the EBC?

 

[Mike 99GSX]

To my knowledge, the 1 bar spring will not prevent you from running any maximum amount of boost, it will only mean that can't run lower than 1 bar of boost. What I would do is decide what is the minimum amount of boost that you want to run and then get your springs to match that number as close as possible. It would seem to me that if you wanted to run say 30 PSI that you would want the minimum spring rate to be as close to that as possible which would keep the gate stiff and shut as tight as possible during spoolup. That is what I did with my Tial. The downside obviously though is not being able to run low boost so I just kept my foot out of it driving to the track. This probably isn't the most practical approach though for a car seeing alot of street use.

 

[Ben K]

Depending on what turbo combination you are running, and how much backpressure you are making at 30+psi, you'll probably going to need an additional spring in your gate to achieve the desired boost level.

 

[TRBOTSI]

FWIW, i've run up to 31 psi on my 60-1 with a tial 35mm and only a 9 psi spring and it was rock solid.

 

[Ajax]

Sorry to bring this back, but I have a question. I am having issues with my Tial 38mm holding boost. I have the small yellow spring which is rated around 3.8psi. I am trying to run around 25 psi with my Profect E-01 but my wastegate holds it sometimes and other times it opens around 12-14 making a fluttering sound. and not building anymore boost? Is something wrong with my EBC or should I just add a large blue spring aswell? I read somewhere that an EBC can only hold about double the rated spring pressure, or is this wrong?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

You're trying to run 25 psi with just the small yellow spring?! Heck, I'm trying to run the same boost with my big green spring and recently switched to a small green / big green. I would opt for a large blue spring if I were you.

http://www.tialsport.com/documents/w3_tial_38_sp.pdf

 

[Ajax]

Great I will will get a big blue as use them both. Thanks for the input

 

[99gst_racer]

Ajax - The rule of thumb is to not run much more boost than double that of the spring rate. Once you exceed the springs rate twice over, the wastegate will not operate as efficiently (ie: blowing open, spiking, etc...).

Last year, I ran a single large blue spring and a MBC to target 28 psi, and it would occasionally spike at 30-32 psi. I now run a large and small blue, so I expect to see rock solid boost control.

Refer to this thread for spring sizing: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...te-spring-chart-bar-psi-conversion-table.html

 

[slowgsr]

Ajax - The rule of thumb is to not run much more boost than double that of the spring rate. Once you exceed the springs rate twice over, the wastegate will not operate as efficiently (ie: blowing open, spiking, etc...).

Last year, I ran a single large blue spring and a MBC to target 28 psi, and it would occasionally spike at 30-32 psi. I now run a large and small blue, so I expect to see rock solid boost control.

Refer to this thread for spring sizing: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...te-spring-chart-bar-psi-conversion-table.html

Better even is no more then 1.5x base pressure, near 2x is pushing it, but would i never go past 2x.

 

[Ajax]

Well I got a large blue spring in the mail so it should be around 18psi if I include my small yellow. I will update once I get it installed

 

[2gGSX]

Be REALLY CAREFUL opening that thing up.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

, use a pair of clamps to help hold the bi*** down. It definitely helps A LOT to use clamps when putting it back together.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Yeah no fun trying to hold it and risk stripping the threads if you slip.

 

[Ajax]

So you guys say that I should use a C-clamp or something clamp it down and remove the bolts, then unclamp the C-clamp? Install springs, use C-clamp to clamp it close and the install bolts again? Or is there a "How To" somewhere?

 

[turbosax2]

http://www.tialmedia.com/wastegate.avi

 

[Ajax]

Thanks for the link, the one video that I want is not working! The rest are but I could not get this one to work. I found this one http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/267948-tial-bov-spring-swap-vfaq.html

 

[twicks69]

First off, wear safety glasses!

Either way, use clamps or a bench vise to securely hold the wastegate while you remove the bolts. Be careful to not strip the threads in the wastegate base while removing or inserting the bolts.

Once all bolts are removed, slowly release the spring pressure by loosening the bench vise or clamp, then separate the cover from the spring/base asssembly. Inspect the valve diaphram for damage or debris. Clean it using an isopropyl alcohol (70% or less) and wipe down the insides of the entire assembly -- clean parts are happy parts!

Reinstall the spring base/diaphram assembly, then install the springs you are going to use based on the mentioned Tial Spring Diagram, then reinstall the cover and place into the vice, slowly tensioning it while keeping the assembly perfectly square. BE SURE THAT THE DIAPHRAM DOES NOT GET PINCHED!!!! Start installing the cover bolts in a normal star-pattern torque sequence, hand tightening them and putting a 1/4 turn or less of extra torque on them. Be careful, as too much torque will strip the threads out of the wastegate base.

That is all there is to it.

 

[Ajax]

Great thanks now I just have to wait for extremepsi to ship it!