T3/T4e 60 trim Questions.....????

[Mackzero]

Well, I have been thinking, and I am not sure now whether or not to do the T3/T4e 60-trim .70ar comp./.63ar exhaust. I bought it new for my other project and am trying to figure out if i should sell it to someone as it is still new never installed, or put it on my car. I want to see around 15 psi but will turn it up to 23 or so when the car is modded all the way. I have a very good intercooler setup and wastegate, and have the tubular manifold for it also, and full exhaust.

Does anyone else run this large of a turbo on their street cars??? Does anyone know what sort of lag I will be looking at to get 15-17psi on my stock 2.0L motor??? Thanks for any help you guys can give me. If no one thinks this will work, I will sell the turbo for like $650 and buy a GT30 dual ball-bearing.

Thanks again.

 

[DSMJim]

60trim is not really a large turbo, your better off to get rid of it for a 50 trim too. It flows more air for basically the same turbo, just a more efficient compressor wheel. The size in the 50-54-57-60 series trims doesn't mean the 60 is bigger its just a different number, they are the same size turbo.

With that said its fine for daily driving, not much more lag then stock and it perfectly streetable. I get boost starting at 2500rpm and can see over 20psi on pump gas by 4000rpm and could be earlier if I tuned my car sharper.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

You will definately do better with a 50 trim if you're going to run 15 PSI. To be honest 15 PSI isn't almost in a 50 trims efficiency range let alone a 60 trim. The 60 trim is going to want to see boost levels higher than 23-24 PSI to make more useable power. The 50 trim is going to do better on pump gas and more tuneable boost levels for daily driving.

 

[DrBrown]

Since the topic is alive already, what kind of lag do slightly mdded DSM's on the stage 3 .63 exhausts get?? Obviously if you have a stage 3 turbo then the compressor will be a T4 of some sort so ther eis more lag to spin the huge compressor wheel, but for my applications I am only running 7 psi on a T3 60 trim. Its decent and I get full boost by 2500 RPM's even with an exhaust leak. But I was just curious if you guys can get 10 psi by 3500 rpms or so with your motors? Because if your 4 cylinders can get that much boost early then I should be fine. Sorry to semi change the topic but the subject was already broght up. Thanks everyone - Dan

P.S. Will higher octane racing fuel actually let the engine come up faster and spool up the turbo earlier?? IF so what kind of gas are you guys using?

 

[Mackzero]

Well, I should clarify....
I bought the 60-trim because I wanted to out flow a 50-trim, when I get my new long block put it there, I plan on running 22-25 psi. Shooting for 500 at the wheels. I want a high 11 sec. street car that is reliable. I plan on building the drivetrain and everything else I need to, and most likely I will go standalone in the end. That is why I chose the 60-trim in the first place, hope that helps.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by Mackzero
Well, I should clarify....
I bought the 60-trim because I wanted to out flow a 50-trim, when I get my new long block put it there, I plan on running 22-25 psi. Shooting for 500 at the wheels. I want a high 11 sec. street car that is reliable. I plan on building the drivetrain and everything else I need to, and most likely I will go standalone in the end. That is why I chose the 60-trim in the first place, hope that helps.

Either turbo is going to work but if you're asking which would be better for your goals then I would get the 50 trim. Hitting high 11s on a 50 trim will not be that hard and you will have more fun on the street on pump gas and lower boost levels.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

The 60 or 50 both work very well on pump. I have a 50, my friend down the street has a 60, and the difference is all tuning. If someone switched our turbos while we were sleeping it would probably take us a week to figure it out. His spool is a bit worse, but its perfectly streetable, I have had larger turbos on my own street cars. Changing from a 60 to 50 is like changing from a big 16g to an evo 16g. The EVO is a bit better, but the difference is NOT worth getting a new turbo for...

And at 20+ psi, its very argueable which turbo is better.

Your main issue will be the TO4S com houing, it may be a bi*** to fit. Some grinding and slim fans will probably be nessecary. But the TO$s housing will make it better at lower boost levels

 

[Ben K]

If he is stating that he has a .70 A/R compressor cover, it's probably a 60-1 compressor wheel. Does it have 6 sets of blades or 7?

The 60 trim T04E and the 60-1 compressor wheels are quite different, both technically being 60 "trims"

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Actually the 60-1 is technically not a 60 trim....and I highly doubt a 60-1 cover, which I doubt anyone here has ever seen. More then likely its a TO4S cover.

 

[Ben K]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
Actually the 60-1 is technically not a 60 trim....and I highly doubt a 60-1 cover, which I doubt anyone here has ever seen. More then likely its a TO4S cover.

OK, I would like to know how a 60-1 is not a 60 trim.

Also, how would you "de-machine" a T04S compressor cover to fit the profile for a wheel smaller than a 60-1?

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by Ben K
OK, I would like to know how a 60-1 is not a 60 trim.

Also, how would you "de-machine" a T04S compressor cover to fit the profile for a wheel smaller than a 60-1?

A 60-1 is not a 60 trim because its trim is not 60. A trim is a ratio calculated between the inducer and exducer. Both a 60 trim and a 60-1 have a 3 inch exducer, but the inducer on the 60-1 is significantly larger, therefore; they are different trims. The 60-1 is not called a 60-1 by garret, the wheel design is called a TO4SO2. The regular TO4S wheel is a TO4SO4...Turbonetics renamed the 60-1 for marketing.

You don't demachine a TO4S...just because thats the common 60-1 housing these days does not mean that its a 60-1 comp housing. The 60-1 comp housing is used ONLY for the 60-1 and 62-1, while the TO4S housing can be used for those in addition to the T-61+ compressors.

Sean

 

[Ben K]

Sorry man, but you are a little confused.

60 trim T04E compressor wheel - 2.29 inducer 2.95 exducer

2.29 squared = 5.2441
2.95 squared = 8.7025

5.2441/8.7025 = .60259 = .60 trim

60-1 compressor wheel - 2.32 inducer 3.00 exducer

2.32 squared = 5.3824
3.00 squared = 9

5.3824/9 = .59804 = .60 trim

Both wheels have a trim of .60

And by the way, the 60-1 was named by Garrett, and Garrett does refer to 40X53X-0001 P/N compressor wheel as the 60-1 wheel. I've never heard of it being called a T04S02, but it could be.

There are two wheels in the T04S family, the 60 trim 2.32/3.00 (60-1) and the 63 trim 2.62/3.30 (T04R).

Now the T04S04 is something completely different. That is a big shaft design wheel 48 trim 2.28/3.31 and also somtimes called the "T58" (which is Turbonetics terminology). The compressor housing used for the T04S04 is a .55 A/R by Garrett, however it is not commonly used. Most builders utilize the Turbonetics cast .70 big cover for T04S04, TA45, TA51, and TV71 compressor wheels, and NOT the smaller .72 A/R Garrett housing that was designed for those wheels. I can also utilize the T04S (60-1) cover for those big shaft wheels with a custom backplate that allows for the larger shaft diameter.

I understand that you would use the big turbonetics cover for the T04S04 wheel, T61, T72 etc, but my question is when was there ever a .70 A/R cover that was cast with a small enough hole to fit the 2.29/2.95 60 trim T04E wheel?

There are three possible answers to what combination this guy has.
1. He could have a 60 trim T04E wheel with the .70 A/R EC-1 T04S compressor housing. This was a John Deer application, and has a small enough hole to be profiled for the 60 trim T04E wheel. -not very likely
2. He could have the 60 trim T04E wheel with the .70 A/R T04B housing that was standard for the 70 trim T04B (H-3) compressor wheel, and it was machined out with a "B" backplate to fit the profile of the wheel. - a little more likely than option 1.
3. He actually has a 60-1 compressor wheel in the standard .70 A/R T04S compressor housing. - most likely

Sean, I am not trying to get in any pissing match here because you know more about this stuff than 99% of the people here, but you are a little off. Feel free to PM me or email me directly if you want to discuss this.

My whole point to replying to this thread is that I noticed the owner mentioned a .70 A/R compressor cover, and you don't normally see the 60 trim T04E compressor wheel in a .70 cover. The thread went on comparing the 50 trim to the 60 trim, when we don't even know for certain if the turbo has the 60 trim. Just my $.03

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

I know when I lose, I forgot the exducer on the 60 trim was 2.95 inches.

With that said, I know I have heard alot of references to a 60-1 specific cover, but I will take your word that it was a mistake. Thanks for setting me straight