16G and 14B turbo max horsepower output?

[Purple Haze]

I am currently looking to Turbo Charge my Grand Am, while deciding on a good turbo to use in conjunction with my engine. My friend suggested getting a 16G from an Eclipse. Now I am curious to wonder what is the max PSI and HP I could produce from this Turbo? I realize my Grand Am engine and a Turbo Eclipse engine are NOTHING alike. I do plan to do many mods to the motor to run a good amount of boost through it. but my friend swears up and down I could get 500HP from a 16G turbo. Is that really true? Can the 16G turbo put out 500HP?? That sounds awfully high for a stock turbo to me. But again, I am pretty new and still learning all this stuff. Also what kind of power could a 14B produce? Thanks for your help. Just to let everyone know. The so far for the turbo setup I do plan to have the motor setup something like this
Forged Pistons 8:5.1 Compression
Steel Rods(stock)
Cut back valves
Ported and Polished Head
Ported Intake mani and TB
FMIC(possibly Greddy or Spearco)
BOV(HKS)
High Flow Injectors
High Volume Fuel Pump
Adjustable FPR
HalTech computer(replaces my entire ECU woo hoo!)
Ported Exhaust manifold and custom Downpipe
high Flow Catalytic converter
2.5" catback(its a dual exhaust setup, not a true but it has a T pipe that leads to the second muffler)
I have a Weapon-R dragon intake that does quite well on my N/A motor I am sure that will be replaced once the turbo goes in!

that is all I can think of at the moment. Again any and all help is much appreciated!
Thanks in advance
Eli

 

[mike9146]

http://www.vfaq.net/mods/10faq.html

Mike C.

 

[niterydr]

oh god, they have spread from grandampower.net...
save us all...
i would recommend starting by reading corky bell's book on turbochargers...
what size motor do you have?

 

[Purple Haze]

I have the 2.3 liter Quad 4.
Don't worry this is all for personal use I don't spread my business at GMpower.net its a waste of time there and just a bunch of kids yelling at each other about how stupid they are.

 

[mike9146]

That Quad 4 is a pretty impressive engine, IIRC. I'm surprised that nobody makes a turbo kit for one. Didn't someone set a land speed record with that engine?

Mike C.

 

[Purple Haze]

There have been several Quads built that have outdone many of GM's top class V8's. Funny thing is GM built most of them. Yes the Quad did set a landspeed record in an Oldsmobile vehicle. A company called Mantapart(not too fond of these people) and Ace got together and built a custom Turbocharged Quad motor for someone. Rumor has it the motor should run 650HP. There's no verification though because the customer they built it for ran out of money so they never gave him the motor. I saw it for sale on Ebay and it wasn't designed to fit in any street legal car it was an all out race motor. There has also been evidence that GM built a Quad 8. They took 2 Quad 4 HO's(180HP rating at 10.1:1 compression) somehow they managed to put both heads on a V8 block. The motor had 32 valves and did 345HP n/a. It was designed in the mid to late 80's I believe. There were only 10 of these motors produced and none where ever sold or put into a car.
I was inspired to Turbocharge my car when someone I meet at Gmpower did a Quad 4 HO (W41 190HP) into a Cav. and turbo charged it. So far he is still in his testing and break in period. But he showed a video where he raced another Cavalier(I think it was turbo as well) his oppenent sprayed out of the hole and the newly turbo cav spanked his ass regardless of the nitrous. He mentioned he ran 13.9 on 4 or 5 PSI. His goal is 17psi. Now I don't expect my car to do 13.9 at 4 or 5 PSI. But that is pretty damn fast. I would like to have a nicely built Quad that is Forced induction and can lay some serious smack down on the V8 class. I hate Fbodies and Corvettes and Vipers. They are such a waste of money and power. Why buy a 300HP V8 when you can have a 300HP 4 cylinder? That's they way I look at it. And yes I hope my next car to be a Supra(MK 4) so that way it will be easier to tune it instead of having to go through all the work of lowering compression etc. to turbo it. My Grand Am is just going to be my project car since it only cost me $4,000 and it is actually a really fun car to drive and handle's fairly well. I have minor modifications done to it and already noticed in the increase in suspesion and a little more top end. Whew, this turned out to be more than i expected to type sorry.

 

[GRNDSM]

This if funny, because this topic came up on a Fiero board a while back. One of our local guys is putting a 4G63 into a Fiero and bunch of Quad guys jumped on him for not starting with that motor instead.

The bottom line is this you can turbocharge a Quad 4, but is was not originally designed to be turbocharged, so it will require a lot to strengthening to support boost (especially high boost).

In ether case, this is way off topic in this forum...

But to answer you original question, 14b can generate around 325hp at the wheels.

Leon
RR

 

[Purple Haze]

325HP at the wheels??
NICE!
I just might be able to settle with the 14B then.

I do have another question. Actually a few. What do the names TD04, TD05, TD06 mean? So far I have figured out that TD04 is a 14B, TD05 is a 16G(small) and TD06 is a 16G (large) the small/large is the size of the compressor or turbine fan or turbine blades(sorry I am still pretty cherry to the whole Turbo concept I know just a few minor things).
From my understand MR2 owners like the TD05 I am not entirely sure on that. Just a rumor I heard.

 

[squiggs]

i honestly wouldnt count/expect on putting down 325 to the wheels with a 14b. you would be better off using a 16g (a small one is preferable IMO) to make over 300. this is on a dsm...i have no clue about pontiacs though. thats up to you

 

[GRNDSM]

TD04, TD05 and TD06 are types of turbos. Sort of like T2, T3 and T4 for Garrett.

TD04 comes in 13b viriety in automatic DSM and in 3KGT.
TD05 come in 14b and in 16G
TD06 is a larger turbo which is used to make up a 20G hybrid.

Leon
RR

 

[gsx91boy]

ugh.. the td is the turbine housing size

td05=6cm^2 housing, td06=7cm^2 housing...

the 14b, 16g part refers to the size and design of the compressor wheel

-aaron

 

[GRNDSM]

Aaron,

If this is the case, then why does TD05-16G comes with 7cm^2 exhaust housing?

Leon
RR

 

[gsx91boy]

er, heh, you got me

i think the td06 is 8cm^2 too

but it stil refers to the exhaust housing - stamped right on there!

pretty sure all td05's have the same a/r regardless, just larger inlet?

-aaron

 

[candela]

20g's also come in a tdo5...

 

[gsx91boy]

yea, the td05 20g is really the "hybrid 20g" Leon talks about because a factory 20g is td06, but when you stick the 20g CHRA in a 16g td05 exhaust housing, wahla, td05 20g (less efficient but faster spool up than td06)...opt for the td06

btw Leon, your car was hard to miss at the '02 SO

i liked how I saw ya auto-x one day and run an 11.6 the next, good #@%#@%#@%#@%

-aaron

 

[GRNDSM]

Well, the original "20G" turbos were TD05-16G turbos with TD06-20G compressor wheel and housing. Everything else about the "20G" was actually TD05.

In now days, shops are building 20G turbos which are more based on TD06, they are using TD06 exhaust wheel and in some cases even the cartridge. But that is a new thing.

Thanks for the compliment Aaron. The car actually ended up running 11.4 on my last run on Sunday. But I needed a lot more, because I was in the semi-final, running against Kevin Lawson's car. The same car that won dyno king competition with 605hp at the wheels!

Leon
RR

 

[niterydr]

get a custom garret setup , larger turbo running low boost creates a friendly environment for n/a cars turned turbo.

 

[dyezak]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
14b can generate around 325hp at the wheels.

Oh my god, I wish you could see how hard I am laughing right now. If you can get more than 260-270whp out of a 14b I'll croak. haha. I just witnessed a FULLY built Extreme engine on the dyno with almost every mod convieveable and a 20g on it max out at 373 to the wheels. Why? The tubo was out of steam. TDO6H turbine wheel ported unclipped in a full TDO6 housing. That's all she had left in her. Coulda probably gotten 15-25hp more if the turbo was clipped...but why.

Now...How in the blue moon is a 14b gonna make 325?

 

[HighPsi91]

Well I guess all the 20G guys running mid,low 11's and even a 10 never really did that either. Dont be so quick to think the car your talking about was setup, tuned as good as it could get.

I will say that 325whp on a 14b is very very hard to attain. I will not say impossible though. If 325whp is the goal than a 16G would be the better choice.

 

[NDgsx]

Originally posted by dyezak


Oh my god, I wish you could see how hard I am laughing right now. If you can get more than 260-270whp out of a 14b I'll croak. haha

Then you're laughing at the holder of the fastest 14b time ever. Leon ran a flat 12 on a 14b.

So I guess this extreme car had a sheetmetal intake, 272 hks cams, head porting, 1mm oversize valves, 9:1 compression, standalone engine management......Somehow I doubt they had done EVERYTHING they could to get power out of the car.

 

[NosLaser]

On the stock 14B, full exhaust, fuel pump, and a 40 shot, my car ran 13.8 at 112mph with a badly slipping clutch...it had to be making SOME power, huh? I don't think 325 to the wheels is out of the question.

Regards,

 

[DSM_TSI_AWD]

not to be a ass nso laser but you are lookin at about 250 to 270 whp to run a 13.8 and that is still high on horse power but nice trap speed that is a lower et for sure. what was you 60 foot

later
Adam

 

[NosLaser]

I would venture to say the car was making closer to 300 to the wheels to run 112mph traps; probably more because as I said, the clutch was slipping badly and it still went 112. Disregard the 13.8 ET as that means nothing and is irrelevant to the discussion; look at the trap speed. And if it matters, the 60 foot was a 2.6.

On the small 16g, the car made 423 wheel HP, 428 TQ on the dyno, so that should also give you a good idea of the capabilities of a properly tuned small 16g. I was always curious as to what the highest power levels people attained out of a small 16g. My run could be among the top, if not the top, however it at least shows the potential is there.

Regards,

 

[GST4U2NV]

umm on my old motor 14psi i made 272whp and 281 tq with a 14b, i would have made more but didn't have enough fuel mods to keep up, now i have a fully built motor, cams all the fuel i could ever want, fmic, etc., i wouldn't doubt 300whp on pump and when i do i will get pleasure in watching you "croak"

 

[HighPsi91]

I dont see any validity in comparisons among specific turbo's potential when nitrous is added.

Power adder 1 + Power adder 2 <> Power adder 1

Thats not comparing apples to oranges, its more like apples to watermelons.