web intake cam w/hks exhaust cam?

[dsm1gturbotalon]

I have one web stage 2 intake cam (the exhaust cam was damaged during shipment from pp). My stock intake cam is messed up due to some valve damage from timing jumping. I was wondering if there is anywhere that I can buy just the web exhaust cam? I emailed vp, that is the only place I found that sells webs. If not I noticed the duration was 264 on the web intake cam, could I use a hks 264 or 272 on the exhaust side? Would this more than likely run like crap? I noticed you can buy hks cams separately that is why I ask.

 

[Groomz]

I would not recommend using different manufactures for camshafts on a motor. They are designed to be used in conjunction. Lift, duration, ramp lift speed are going to differ as well as how well the camshafts are indexed on manufacturing. From what I've searched, HKS camshafts are the best choice, and using a lower quality camshaft in conjunction with an HKS camshaft could result in less power.

 

[pantaREi]

There wont be a prob in turbo cars.If it NT it can be a prob but in turbos there wont be a problem u can use hks with web.
Use HKS 272 in exhaust side.

DRAGGER.ORG OWNER

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by Groomz
I would not recommend using different manufactures for camshafts on a motor. They are designed to be used in conjunction. Lift, duration, ramp lift speed are going to differ as well as how well the camshafts are indexed on manufacturing. From what I've searched, HKS camshafts are the best choice, and using a lower quality camshaft in conjunction with an HKS camshaft could result in less power.

WEB are not lower quality cams. They have been making cams for longer than HKS has been around. They have provided cams to domestic racing teams who run 5 second cars. Saying they are lower quality is ridiculous.

However, I would also not recommend running one cam from one manufacturer than one from another but I'm sure you could use an HKS exahust cam with a WEB intake cam and have descent results. Hell you might find a better setup by accident and give everybody a whole new cam option we didn't even know existed.

A lot of great automotive finds are found by accident while trying something that everybody said would never work. Hell V8 guys said we would NEVER EVER run single digit times in a 4cyl import no matter what we used and all motor cars are now doing that and turbo cars are running 7's so there goes that theory.

Give it a shot and let us know how it goes.

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

Well vp said they can get me just the web exhaust cam for $285. HKS cams usually go for about $290 each so I'm in a little dilemma here. I might play it safe and get the web. On a different note has anybody had any experience with the 452/228 web stage 2 cams? My setup is in my profile. As long as I keep the revs under 8k (assuming my rev limiter is above that) can I keep the stock valves, springs, etc...

 

[greathuskie]

think of it this way...john sheppard ran 8s on 272's, you need nothing more

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

Ummm.... What are you trying to say? Are you saying to go with the hks exhaust cam or with straight 272's. If I recall 272 in/ex was never one of my options. I already have the web intake cam so why purchase two new ones? If I had enough money I would definitely get hks 272s but that's not the situation right now.

 

[leet]

Originally posted by dsm1gturbotalon
Ummm.... What are you trying to say? Are you saying to go with the hks exhaust cam or with straight 272's. If I recall 272 in/ex was never one of my options. I already have the web intake cam so why purchase two new ones? If I had enough money I would definitely get hks 272s but that's not the situation right now.

So save up to when you do have the money to get them.

 

[cait sith]

Originally posted by DSMJim
WEB are not lower quality cams. They have been making cams for longer than HKS has been around. They have provided cams to domestic racing teams who run 5 second cars. Saying they are lower quality is ridiculous.

I don't care if they've been around for five billion years, made the engines that send the Space Shuttle into orbit, broke the sound barrier with a Chevette motor, that doesn't change the fact that they've had numerous (like, a LOT) quality control issues with their cam shafts for the 4G63 motor.

Another factor is that you don't have to degree HKS cams, and you will have to degree the Web cam. This might prove for very tricky setups.

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

My stock intake cam is messed up due to some valve damage from timing jumping.

I'm rebuilding the motor right now so there really isn't any time to save up for the hks. Maybe later down the road when I get this situation (shop did timing belt install, crank pulley split 18 days later, they blame it on coincidence) resolved I'll purchase some hks cams because obviously people think they are better. For now I'm going to by the other web because it is cheaper and hopefully still better than stock.

 

[sleestack]

It boggles my mind how some people will defend Web after the crap that happened.

I will tell you this as undisputable fact , regardless of the quality control issues (which should be enough).

I have never seen a set of Webs that made more power or torque or idled better than their HKS counterparts. Ever, and I have made hundred of dyno pulls on several cars.

Install them straight up and they may make your car sound cool, but that is it. The first set I installed in my car were 6 degrees off intake and 17 degrees off the exhaust from advertised "straight up". Installed a set of 272/272 HKS and they were 2 degrees on the exhuast and that is likley from machine work on my block and head. My car wound up making 520hp on a smaller 3055 with that setup. They might make a fine domestic cam but their DSM cams ...suck.

 

[cait sith]

Originally posted by sleestack
Iand 17 degrees off the exhaust from advertised "straight up".

SEVENTEEN DEGREES? I knew Web cams needed degreeing, but 17 DEGREES?!

That's *really* bad.

 

[sleestack]

Originally posted by cait sith
SEVENTEEN DEGREES? I knew Web cams needed degreeing, but 17 DEGREES?!

That's *really* bad.

To help put it in perspective, one cam tooth is 15 crank degrees. Granted, I haven't seen a case quite that bad since but I didn't dig these cams out of Web's dumpster, I paid money for them.

 

[cait sith]

I know 1 tooth is 15 degrees, having done numerous timing belt jobs and bending valves/getting close to it (Note: I ) , but still 1 tooth off/17 degrees on something that's supposed to be "straight up" is pretty damn bad IMO, when HKS, the "newbies" manage to make their cams idle like stock without degreeing.

Maybe that can be a new ricer trend among DSM owners, installing your timing belt one tooth off for that way-kool lumpy idle nose.

 

[ABK]

Yo, if those ####heads messed up your cam get them to pay for the new ones

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

I really wasn't trying to make this a web vs. hks thread but it appears to have gotten there. My situation is this: Pay $285 for the one web cam or pay $580 for two hks. I'm not ready to justify spending $300 more right now. I think everybody understands that hks make higher quality cams so I don't know why every cam thread turns into a web cam bashing.
I'm in the process of getting the shop to court that did my timing belt, and don't tell me I should have done it myself because the water pump seal went out on a trip and I had to take it to the nearest AAA shop to have it done. I have a Chrysler mechanic that is willing to testify against the shop so hopefully I'll get my money back. Maybe I'll have enough to buy some Hks cams.
Just to make sure, I can use the stock valves, springs, etc.. with these cams as long as I don't over rev right?

 

[sleestack]

Here is my "on topic" answer to your question.
If properly installed it won't hurt your engine to mismatch cams, as long as you use the intake for intake and exhaust for exhaust. I doubt you'll break any records, but if you get a HKS cam now, your halfway to having the set when you get another $300 bux.

If it was me though I'd just put the stock cams in till thats happens. If you don't have any, give me money for shipping and I could send you some. I have a box of them.

 

[DSMJim]

I didn't know web has such problems with 4G63 cams. I have used web on many b-series (Honda) engines and while they do need to be degreed a lot (like 8-15deg generally ) they do seem to make descent power on those motors. I know their cam design and material seem to be decent from what I have exprienced however I didn't know the 4G63 cams had such a poor track record.

I personally plan on buying HKS cams myself even before this thread because it's hard to mess with something tried and true.

dsm1gturbotalon: Your either going to pay now or pay later, but your eventually going to pay. Might as well buy what you know you really need/want now and not have to worry about it later on. Lets put it this way your going to spend $285 of one web cam now just to later on still spend $580 on two HKS cams. Thats $865 on cams after all is said and done vs just $580 now. And you can list one cam on ebay and get $200 for it. You konw some dumb ass out there on ebay will buy it..

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

I figured it would be easier to sell the cams as a set if I had to. Hopefully I don't have to pay for these cams at all if I can get money out of the shop that screwed the motor up. I went ahead and ordered the web and we'll see how it goes. Web is apparently out of that grind so they have to make one and I will hopefully have it mid next week. The guy from VP I talked to didn't like the idea of mixing cam brands unless I had it dyno tuned. Can anyone chime in with an answer to my valves, spring, etc.. question I asked in the previous post?

 

[DSM Storm]

To chime in on this subject, I originally went with a set of web 546/547 cams figuring i would never take my car this far. When i took my head to my machinist to fix a mistake that he had done he noticed that one of my web cams only made 5 thousands more lift than my stock cam, if I remember correctly it was the intake cam, he then checked the exhaust cam and that was fine. This means that the grind on that camshaft did not agree with the spec sheet they gave me, it is obvious that this cam was grinded incorrectly. This was a situation, the cams I had gotten over 6 months prior were defective, I could not return them so now I have one good web cam and another junk cam, I was forced to get rid of them in place for a set of HKS 272's. I havnt looked back. I know there are some using web cams with look luck, and I think thats great, but I would not risk using those camshafts on my engine. I do not like web camshafts, and I personally would not refer them to anyone. I recognize your situation, and I dont think you will have any issues with this setup, If you happen to find that this combo works to your advantage, let us know. Good luck.

Storm

 

[dsm1gturbotalon]

Just to follow up on my situation here. I ran with the 452/228 web cams for about 2 weeks before I heard an odd noise. The cam bolt on the exhaust side had backed out. I had it checked out and it looks like the locating pin on my new exhaust cam was too long. Thus the gear ended up torquing incorrectly and backing out. While the cams were in there I never really had a chance to get on it because I was cautious after the rebuild with the break in. One thing for sure was there was a rather severe loss in low end power. The car felt really slow below 3500 rpm or so. Now I don't know if the cams were ever installed properly so this may not be the best impression of these cams. On another note, does the excuse above for the bolt backing out make any sense? I sent the cam back to web and they said it was too long and they tapped it in. They then told me they were sending me my cam back. I received my cam, but atleast to me it looks like a brand new cam. I mean there that gray paint on there and there was a new locating pin ( I know because the original pin was shaved down after the initial install to see if it was still good. My mechanic (a dealership) said it wasn't, but Web said it was fine). Web is blaming the install and the dealership is blaming Web. So I have a $600 repair bill along with a $300 towing charge that I have to cover because people are blaming each other. I don't plan on putting these back in unless I move to a bigger turbo. So if anyone wants them PM me.