Spool up sounds wrong... Help!!!

[v8klla]

Just got a new big 16g from TRE.

It used to sound like a jet taking off when it spooled up, now it sounds like whining, like it is working really hard.

A few days ago my wastegate actuator line got kinked and my turbo spooled well over 20 psi, i hit fuel cut of course but could this have somehow hurt the turbo?

I also crushed my 1G BOV when i repaired the kink, could that have changed the sound of my turbo spooling up?

It seems to hold boost fine, but the sound is killing me???

Thanks,

CC

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Pull of the instale pipe and spin the compressor wheel by hand. Make sure it is not hitting the compressor housing.

Later,

 

[v8klla]

Nope, there is no shaft play, and it spind freely.

 

[BatmanGSX]

You are worrying about nothing. 20psi won't hurt anything, including the turbo.

 

[JoeGSX]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX
You are worrying about nothing. 20psi won't hurt anything, including the turbo.

I disagree. Saying 20psi wont hurt anything is to broad of a statment. If you hit 20psi and it was only for a second then yes you should be fine. If you hit 20psi for a sustaned period of time beacuse you didnt notice it before you hit fuel cut you could do damage. But it would be to the engine not the turbo.

Joe

 

[v8klla]

My gauge goes to 20 PSI.....

Without the WG actuator opening my turbo spun all it wanted, hitting a boost level of who knows what....All I can say is the needle was buried. I noticed it right away, believe me you can hear that sucker at that high of boost and I let off, I believe fuel cut hit at the time.

So she was spinning like a bat out of hell.

That's what I was wondering if that could damage my turbo, but there is no shaft play, no smoke and it holds boost fine.

But when the actuator line was pinched the turbo sounded like it does now, but now the line isn't pinched and the boost holds where I set it.

Any Ideas??

CC

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by JoeGSX


I disagree. Saying 20psi wont hurt anything is to broad of a statment. If you hit 20psi and it was only for a second then yes you should be fine. If you hit 20psi for a sustaned period of time beacuse you didnt notice it before you hit fuel cut you could do damage. But it would be to the engine not the turbo.

Joe

You're wrong. 20psi really isn't all that high. Even if he didn't hit fuel cut and he kept going it probably wouldn't have done anything because we have "ECUs". These "ECUs" can do such things as retard timing in the even of detonation. Stop worrying this guy, nothing is wrong with his engine.

 

[Enigma_Man]

I would check for any intake leaks. Do an intake leak test if you have the thing built, or if you don't, build it. There's a VFAQ on building/doing it.

If you have an intake leak, your turbo has to spin faster to provide the same psi, because air is leaking.

It would also make it sound differently too.

-Jesse

 

[v8klla]

All I can do is hope for the best....

So I'm doing a leak test today and I hope to find a leak...

Something other than the turbo may have been damaged at that high of boost.

I will keep you updated, but if anyone has any other ideas that would be great.

CC

 

[v8klla]

Oh, by the way, I can;t find the rubber inner part of my intake, it was hard to get on at first, now it slips on to the inlet easily. But if it went into my turbo don;t you think something would've broke or I would've noticed?

 

[JoeGSX]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX


You're wrong. 20psi really isn't all that high. Even if he didn't hit fuel cut and he kept going it probably wouldn't have done anything because we have "ECUs". These "ECUs" can do such things as retard timing in the even of detonation. Stop worrying this guy, nothing is wrong with his engine.

Dont the 2G rods start to get weak around 22psi? It only takes a split second to do damage. Im not trying to worry him. I even said that there was probably nothing wrong. By your logic we could run 30psi without worry beacuse our ECUs can retard the timing.

 

[v8klla]

As far as I can tell there is no damage to the engine, the only difference is the sound under boost. My engine is fine, it is either my turbo,BOV,boost controller, or a vacuum line somewhere in the mix. I will do a leak test tonight and hopefully find a leak

CC

 

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by JoeGSX
Dont the 2G rods start to get weak around 22psi?

What are you talking about? People have run 32psi on stock 2G rods with no breakage. The compression alone is upwards of 185psi in some cases. On top of that, do you know how much psi is in combustion explosion? A whole lot more than 185psi. Rods don't break at a psi, they break at a power level.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. PLEASE STOP.

 

[Enigma_Man]

Humm... I'm not exactly sure what happens when something does go into your intake. But I thought it was basically instant-death for the turbine. I'm not sure about that little rubber ring thingy though, cause if it were soft rubber like that, it might just get chewed up, and gum up inside....

I do know that when I was taking out the little cardboard thingy behind the MAF, and I put the intake back on the turbo inlet, when I looked down the rubber tube, that little rubber sleeve thing didn't go where it was supposed to, and was folded inside, covering the intake to the turbo.

If you think that this might be what it is, disconnect the turbo compresser outlet, and look inside the compressor housing for chewed up black junk..

That's about all I can think of man.

-Jesse

Originally posted by v8klla
Oh, by the way, I can;t find the rubber inner part of my intake, it was hard to get on at first, now it slips on to the inlet easily. But if it went into my turbo don;t you think something would've broke or I would've noticed?

 

[BatmanGSX]

Considering a drop of water can destroy a compressor wheel, I'm guessing you would know if the rubber ring got sucked in.

 

[v8klla]

So any other ideas as to why it sounds as if there is a dying horse under my hood???

CC

 

[JoeGSX]

I understand what your saying but the pressure is pushing against the rods when they are on the compression stroke. Even though the combustion starts before the piston is at TDC it doesn’t place any pressure on the piston until it is on its downward stroke. No need to be an ass and say I don’t know what I’m talking about. 20psi is allot if your not prepared for it.

Originally posted by BatmanGSX


What are you talking about? People have run 32psi on stock 2G rods with no breakage. The compression alone is upwards of 185psi in some cases. On top of that, do you know how much psi is in combustion explosion? A whole lot more than 185psi. Rods don't break at a psi, they break at a power level.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. PLEASE STOP.

 

[v8klla]

I met two awesome DSMer's tonight, screenname Hor on DSMtalk.

He let me borrow his pocketlogger and tried to help me diagnose my problem, to no avail.

Well, we now know that it is not my BOV, boost controller or the rubber o-ring, and they seem to think it could not be the turbo since a 25 or 30 psi surge for about .5 of a second SHOULD NOT damage a big 16g, considering some people run it at 25+ PSI...

Logger results indicate good timing, but my air flow is comparable to that of a T25, so somehow my turbo is not pushing enough air or it is being lost elsewhere...

So tomorrow I do a leak test, and if that doesn't work I don't know what the next step is..............

CC

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by JoeGSX
I understand what your saying but the pressure is pushing against the rods when they are on the compression stroke. Even though the combustion starts before the piston is at TDC it doesn’t place any pressure on the piston until it is on its downward stroke. No need to be an ass and say I don’t know what I’m talking about. 20psi is allot if your not prepared for it.

Nope nope nope. "Over 20 psi" could be considered a lot. 20 psi is relatively nothing. Besides, boost pressure itself cannot damage an engine (not in an everyday scenario). If you run a boost pressure high enough that the fuel system cannot keep up with the higher amount of air that is being forced into the engine, then you can run into problems. However, if you simply spike into 20+ psi like he did, you're not going to see anything bad happen. Worst case scenario is the knock sums increase, the ECU retards timing, and a second later he lifts. The exhaust manifold gets a little warm, but that's about it.

Now, if he was crusing around creeping to 25 psi on a daily basis, he *could* have problems depending on what his fuel system and intercooler are.

Some un-scientific data: My VDO boost gauge reads to 25 psi. I have had it pegged at 25 for all of first and second gear at the track, and my car still runs fine. 160+ psi compression in every cylinder, and it has 145k miles on it. These motors are "prepped" for 20 psi from the factory (although probably not intentionally ).

 

[KenTSIII]

You might wanna take the intake tube off & visually inspect the turbine blades.. as it sounds like you sucked the rubber step down into the turbo. I did this once a few years back.. & it totally screwed up the compressor wheel.. looked sorta like a f'd up meat grinder. Is 20psi alot? Yes... on a honda, but on a DSM w/ a motor built for a turbo 20psi is nothing, especially for a very short period of time.. the ECU retards the timing & he still hit fuel cut.. so that's not a big deal...

 

[v8klla]

Finally we are getting somewhere...

Turns out my BOV leaks like a madman at 6 psi, I could not get it to go over 6 PSI with the BOV leaking....

Think how fast my turbo has to spin to hold 14 PSI!!!!!!!!

So I place my hand over the BOV return, and boom 15 PSI and holding better, BUT....

Another leak at the throttle body elbow to TB gasket!!!

I ordered the gasket and looking for a BOV, maybe I can still get to the track this weekend.

Thanks for the help everyone, Especially Mark and your friend (sorry I forgot his name already )

CC

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I told you it was the BOV. Remember me asking if you crushed properly?

I'm glad you got it resolved.

Later,

 

[Enigma_Man]

Yay, and I told him to do the leak test

I should do one myself again.

-Jesse (Hooray, I'm helping! - Dr. Zoidberg)

 

[v8klla]

Went to the track this weekend, turbo won't hold boost and still makes the whining noise even after the new BOV and intake gasket. A tech at turboXS suggested an exhaust gasket may be blown before the turbo. Any one have any more ideas before I ship out the ol' turbo, or should I say new turbo???

CC

 

[BatmanGSX]

Yeah, have someone with a clue take a look at the car before you waste anymore time or money.