rnr o2 elim exhaust Q's and concerns please HELP!

[kiakarimi]

Ok i have a 97 GSX and my current setup is fully stock except a 1G bov and an extreme psi filter and pipe. I'm tuning my car in the direction of road race and auto X rather than drag racing. I have right around 600 bucks and i want to get the rnr o2 eliminator turbo back exhaust but i have many concerns. First off, I'm unsure as to whether i should get a 2.5" or a 3". my indecision is due to the fact that I've heard the 3" has more tendency to cause boost creep and lose of low end power when running the stock turbo, but i've also heard it is the better of the two choices for various other reasons. My main other concern is boost creep. I REALLY don't have the money or resources to deal with a boost creep problem should it arise such as porting or getting an mbc (not yet). What would you guys think is the best setup for me to get the best performance without having to worry about boost creep or lose of low end performance. Also, let me know whether you think i should get internal or external dump, and the benefits of either or. I don't plan on getting a cat so external might be too loud on a 3". Maybe a 2.5" with external? I have no idea, and any help you guys can offer would be really appreciated alot. Thanks!

 

[andol469]

If you get an O2 eliminator downpipe, you'll have less of a chance of suffering from boost creep. Don't worry about boost creep with an O2 elminator from RnR.

If you're planning on staying with the stock turbo, 2.5" is enough.

Internal or external dump shouldn't really matter on a stock turbo, I'm going external (small performance gain) but some people say there is no gain over an internal dump, but much more noise with the external. If you can tolerate a loud nasty exhaust sound at full boost, then you might as well go external (IMO.)

Get an MBC

 

[kiakarimi]

well, if i do upgrade turbo eventually (in a LONG time) I don't think i'll go any bigger than a big28, or some other small quick boosting turbo, simply because of the direction i want to mod my car in.

Also, do you think the external will still be super loud if its a 2.5" ? As far as i know, no cat along with external dumping is very illegal so if its gonna attract alot of attention maybe its not such a good idea? I personally don't care, i just don't want to get hassled by cops.

Also, what is the "external wastegate flange welded on" option for?

 

[msaskin]

Originally posted by kiakarimi
well, if i do upgrade turbo eventually (in a LONG time) I don't think i'll go any bigger than a big28, or some other small quick boosting turbo, simply because of the direction i want to mod my car in.

Also, do you think the external will still be super loud if its a 2.5" ? As far as i know, no cat along with external dumping is very illegal so if its gonna attract alot of attention maybe its not such a good idea? I personally don't care, i just don't want to get hassled by cops.

Also, what is the "external wastegate flange welded on" option for?

i'm assuming here that you know the differences between an internal/external wastegate and what a wastegate does. if not, ask and i or someone else will explain.

the option ("external wastegate flange welded on") is just what it says. you can, for the extra however much it is ($30?) have them weld a flange onto the downpipe where the o2 housing would normally sit that allows you to connect an external wastegate. since the primary choices for mounting an external gate are either on the o2 housing or on the exhaust manifold, they offer this so you can have it done by them, instead of having to find a shop on your own to weld a flange up for an external gate.

~matt

 

[andol469]

If you're worried about too much noise, then an internal dump might be the better route. If there is emissions testing in your area, then external dumps and test pipes will be illegal. Actually it's illegal to tamper with a functioning catalytic converter, but I've heard of DSMs passing emissions here in Ohio without a cat. So it's your call on that... your best bet is to find someone who has an external dump, bum a ride in their car, and listen to the sound of the external at full boost. Some people love the sound, others hate it, it's a personal call on that.

Here's what I'm planning on ordering from RnR in the next month or so:

3" O2 eliminator turbo-back, 1g, AWD
SS Muffler w/ 4" tip
external dump
external wastegate flange welded on (I plan on using a Tial ext. wastegate, most likely 40mm)

If you're planning on staying with the T-25 or any other relatively small turbo, you probably won't need the external wastegate flange welded on. Most smaller turbos tend to use internal gates...

Sorry for the length, I'm trying to be as clear as possible w/o rambling...

 

[kiakarimi]

Thanks for your replies!

I personally don't have a problem with a loud exhaust on my setup, i actually like it, but i'm just worried about being hassled by cops. Emissions shouldn't be a problem, I'll just swap out the stocker considering that its not very often at all. So i'm thinkin 2.5" with external dump.

By the way, does anyone have install instructions for a full turbo back exhaust or better yet, for the RNR one specifically? I looked on vfaq but only found catback. I heard people have trouble with their install in regards to mounting, ground straps, and removal of the o2 sensor housing and i can't imagine i'll be very well off without any experience trying to install on my own.

Suggestions are still very much appreciated!

 

[andol469]

I'd also like to hear some things to watch out for during the install. I'll remove the turbo if I have to (to get to the O2 housing bolt) but I'd rather not, so if anyone has any tips/tricks, let me know. I'd appreciate it.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

I have the RnR 3" Turboback O2 Elim and it wasn't bad at all. Soak your O2 sensor housing bolts with PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench for a good hour after your get the heatshield off. I would definitly jack the front end up and attempt to get at those bolts from the bottom rather than the top. Other than that, spray the rest of the bolts for the exhaust. You have a 97 so your gasket is probably in good shape from the O2 sensor housing to the turbo. As far as a turbo is concerned. I would always go with a 3. In the unlikely (but possible) instance that you get money and can upgrade your turbo that is larger than a 16G, you won't have to go and upgrade from 2.5" to 3".

 

[alex99gst]

this is just my opinion, but if I were you, i would wait just a little while and upgrade my turbo and exhaust at the same time.(unless you plan on racing right now.) that way you wont have to upgrade from 2.5 to 3 for more power. b/c you will already have 3"

 

[doug]

Originally posted by alex99gst
that way you wont have to upgrade from 2.5 to 3 for more power.

That doesn't apply unless you're well over 400HP.

 

[kiakarimi]

well i wouldn't be getting a small turbo because i don't have much money. I'd be getting a small turbo because i want one, for quick spool up. And i'm pretty sure i won't be going over 350 hp in the long run.

Does anyone have a sound clip of external dump? I want one but i've been hearing that it can get annoying. Also, is shipping price included with the exhausts from rnr or is it seperate, like normal?

 

[RnR Racing]

First, I always recommend the 3" 02 elim turbo back w/ int dump and SS muffler option. This is my opinion will provide the best set up for a street car. It will spool the turbo faster than the 2.5" system and will also provide more power. We are now using large int. dump tubes that are 2" and will provide must better boost control.

I don't like the ext. dumps for street cars with small turbos. Especially if you are using any turbo smaller than a 20g. On smaller turbos the wastegate is going to open up early because the turbo spools so fast. This will make driving around normal become annoying. On larger turbos that don't spool early you could just cruise around normal and not have to worry about it opening up all the time. It would only open later in the rpm band.

Also the 3" system should provide more power. Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[msaskin]

well, there's the answer straight from the horses mouth.

on that note, do you guys (or anyone) have any sound clips of what an open dump sounds like? also, would you recommend (for performance reasons...sound aside) the open dump or closed dump for a street car running an FP Green turbo w/ Tial 40mm external gate.

~matt

 

[RnR Racing]

Performance wise on a green turbo you might gain a little power with the ext dump, but for a street car I think it is cooler to have an int. dump so that it isn't loud. We can always reroute the ext. gate back into the downpipe.

 

[kiakarimi]

Hey rnr, the only reason i'm considering a 2.5" is because from the research i've done on this forum (alot) I've found that most people with my similiar setup are almost always boost creeping. This wouldn't be an issue if i had a bigger turbo, but i don't, nor do i plan on getting a big turbo. As far as the ext. dump, noise is not an issue for me, normal driving, i usually shift before i'm boosting hard anyways, at around 3k, so i don't think i'll have much to worry about there.

 

[andol469]

O2 eliminator downpipes come with a tubular oxygen sensor housing that replaces the stock O2 sensor housing (hence O2 elminator.) A well designed tubular oxygen sensor housing will outflow the most heavily ported stock oxygen sensor housing. What I'm trying to say is, I don't think you'll have to worry about creep with a 2.5" O2 eliminator exhaust.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[CBgst]

Just get the 3" and get it over with. You won't have a problem with boost creep with an o2 eliminator. Just do it right the first time and get 3" you don't want to have to buy an exhaust twice. You will not loose any bottom end with 3" either. You've got a turbo providing all the back pressure you'll ever need. You'll actually gain some bottom end due to the turbo spooling faster. With a t-25 why are you worried about bottom end any way it already spools super fast anyway and will just spool faster with an exhaust.

 

[Car Cannibal]

What I would recommend you run is AWAY from R&R.

I know not to fall for the credit card machine not working and 2 weeks line now.

Do a search on both dsm sites, and I bet you can find many others who have heard the 2 weeks line, 6-8 weeks reality.

The fact that they are on here recommending you buy something they know will not leave for at least a month is pathetic. Get a clue R&R.
Your an embarrasment to the community of DSM vendors and customers.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by Car Cannibal
What I would recommend you run is AWAY from R&R.

I know not to fall for the credit card machine not working and 2 weeks line now.

Do a search on both dsm sites, and I bet you can find many others who have heard the 2 weeks line, 6-8 weeks reality.

The fact that they are on here recommending you buy something they know will not leave for at least a month is pathetic. Get a clue R&R.
Your an embarrasment to the community of DSM vendors and customers.

I don't know what you are smoking, but they have great prices and great service. I am nothing but happy with RnR. Don't go hating a vendor just because of one misunderstanding or bad luck.

 

[andol469]

Ryan has been nothing but helpful in my experiences from both sites. I've heard it takes them awhile to send exhausts sometimes (like a month) but they custom build each exhaust when you order it. That way you can get whatever you want, exactly what you want, and it's for a great price. Sucks that you had a bad experience with RnR though, but I definitely wouldn't say they're an embarrassment to the DSM community... a little harsh wouldn't you think? And why did you post this here anyway, can't you PM or email RnR if you have a problem with them?

 

[TaloNKiD505]

Is it tru in order for u to have the external dump u need and external waste gate for ur turbo

 

[krosTSI]

Originally posted by kiakarimi
Does anyone have a sound clip of external dump?

Heres a clip of the external dump!

 

[krosTSI]

sorry got excited with "submit reply" button!

My computer is being ###,
but go here and scroll down a bit

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58429

later
-KY

 

[krosTSI]

heres a question, I plan on odering from RNR very soon. I have the stock 14b turbo, so i cant get the external waste gate flange welded on..........right? BUt i want to do a turbo upgrade next summer if not sooner, and that turbo WILL reccomend an external waste gate, so what do i do? please help!!!!
Thanks,
-KY

 

[98SilverGSX]

Originally posted by TaloNKiD505
Is it tru in order for u to have the external dump u need and external waste gate for ur turbo

No, this is not true. I have a RnR 3" o2 eliminator DP w/external dump and I dont have an external WG. Im running an ETE32 w/50 trim and im very happy with it. Its very obnoxious at full boost and everyone tells me the car sounds awesome.