Co2 will it cool the intercooler?

[level10a/t93tsi]

i play paintball and had a full 20oz Co2 bottle and was thing of use it to cool my intake charge. dose any 1 think it will work or not?
im going to try it out and let everyone know ASAP

when you let Co2 out of the bottle it will start it freeze and will couse the top of the bottle to ice up

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

It may not be cold enough to make a difference.


Later,

 

[RocketDSM]

I am in the same boat. Played paintball, and have a lot of bottles left over. A friend and I are making a billet aluminum rack that fits between the rear lights inside the trunk to hold four 20oz CO2 bottles. We are going to use a nitrous type fogger system mounted in front of the intercooler. Here are the problems we are looking at.

1) Maintaining CO2 pressure. As you know CO2 doesn't expand at a linear/predictable rate. So getting it to spray reliably will be an issue.

2) Directing CO2. If you have ever used a CO2 fire extinguisher you see a rather strange happening. It goes up rather than out. Hence why they put horns on the extinguishers. Therefore, a small fogger will have to be placed VERY close to the IC and this limits how much area it will actually be able to cool.

3) Maintaining CO2 temperature. CO2 bottles use a pressure burst disk as a safety. If the bottles get too hot for ANY reason they will blow and now your AO'd. Also, the CO2 that does come out won't be real cool for very long so how much will it actually cool the IC?

The better, albeit more expensive, system I've seen work is to use nitrous. Also, for those of us under emissions, using nitrous on the intercooler will not break any laws except the laws of transportation of nitrous, which can be worked arond rather easily. CO2 gives you the bonus of having no legal ramifications at all. Also, it isn't regulated in anybody books yet. So it may give you a small edge. When we get it done I'll definitely give an update and pics to you all can make your own judgements. Also, we are planning on a boost dependant system so dyno'ing it will be somewhat odd. First I have to find a AWD dyno down here.

 

[RocketDSM]

Suddenly I just thought of an idea I might use....instead of boost dependant, I might go RPM dependant so it starts shooting while I rev it on the line....hmmmm.

 

[BatmanGSX]

Why not just use nitrous? I don't think there is that big of a price difference.

 

[Keith]

Here is a link to a thread I started on this subject: http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49448

 

[RocketDSM]

Just having a nitrous bottle in your car will get you jailed here in Southern California. Doesn't even matter if you are following the rules, they don't care. But there are no rules on CO2. Also, refilling Nitrous is a LOT more expensive than CO2. I already have most of the equipment for CO2. See where this is going?

 

[97GSX6bolt]

Why not set up a pair of window spritzers and a resevoir of water/alchohol mixture with a pump and switch to spray you IC? Works just like your window washer and cools the IC pretty well.

 

[RocketDSM]

Only real problem I can see with that is that is doesn't cool as well as CO2 or NOS, and weighs more than either one.

 

[InferiorWang]

the problem i can think of is the formula for combustion. Hydrocarbons (things made out of only hydrogen and carbon such as gas) combine with oxygen to form H20 and CO2. I wouldnt think that adding a product of combustion to a combustion reaction would be a lot of help. Nitrous is used because NO2 (or is it N20) adds more burnable oxygen than is in the atmosphere. CO2 isnt burnable. You can always try it but IMHO I dont think it will work.

 

[STARION]

Its been around for a lil while

NITROUS EXPRESS HAS BEEN MAKING A KIT FOR A WHILE THAT SPRAYS CO2 ON THE INTERCOOLER. Its a rip off though, its like $500, and its simple to just buy the solenoid and use then use paintball parts for the rest of the parts.

yes, it works quite well, increases up to 50 hp!!!!


www.nitrousexpress.com/welcome.htm

(click on catgory, scroll down to 'Nitrous N-ter Cooler Chiller')

thats the best name they could come up with for it, and you can use either nitrous or carbon dioxide.

 

[Revenant]

yes, it works quite well, increases up to 50 hp!!!!

hmmm...did you just pull that horsepower figure from an ad in a magazine? 50hp regardless of FMIC core, turbo or setup in the car? Sounds fishy to me.

Until I see the a dyno slip showing me something different, I think that that setup will only eliminate some heat soak in an IC, and at best, maybe give some (small) gains... after you use it, the ambient temp and engine temp would bring the IC core back to ambient temperature more likely than not...

my 2 cents.

 

[RocketDSM]

First, InferiorWang, you must be confused. We are not trying to burn these things. We are spraying them on the intercoolers to "freeze" the IC and cool the intake temp.

Second, yes you can get "amazing" HP gains from freezing the IC. One of the first was Adam Saruwatari (RX7 god). He took a 37HP NOS kit and found that freezing his intercooler INSTEAD of injecting it gave him 63hp. Now remember that RX7s heat soak even worse than we do so ours probably won't be that good.

And the current discussion of using CO2 rather than NOS will decrease that efficiency a little more. Will it help to spray CO2? Yes. Will you see astounding gains? Probably Not. Is it worth it? That is personal.

 

[95talontsi]

I have been thinking about doing this for a long time but I find one problem thats why I am going to use the water/ alchol injection or just mist water on my intercooler. Co2 sounds like a great Idea but think about it co2 is in fire extingishers uh, imagine sucking in all co2 into your engine?? water alchol injection is fairly simple and absorbs turmendous amounts of heat, first by vaporising in the intake charge and in the combustion chamber, plus is steam cleans your valves and the alchoal add a little anti knock. HP are not crazy but there, really just lets you run alot more boost then giving you hp cause water doesn't add power. or you could just mist it in front of the intercooler which would cool it, plus do it all the time on the street but the track guys might be a little mad. Most racers take an open nitrous bottle and freeze they're intercooler but remember they can lift off the body.

 

[NosLaser]

...I have been thinking about doing this for a long time but I find one problem thats why I am going to use the water/ alchol injection or just mist water on my intercooler. Co2 sounds like a great Idea but think about it co2 is in fire extingishers uh, imagine sucking in all co2 into your engine??...

Can I ask a stupid question? How on earth are you going to get CO2 into your engine by spraying it on to the intercooler? The intercooler is a sealed unit, so how in the blue hell is CO2 going to get INSIDE of it?


...water alchol injection is fairly simple and absorbs turmendous amounts of heat, first by vaporising in the intake charge and in the combustion chamber, plus is steam cleans your valves and the alchoal add a little anti knock. HP are not crazy but there, really just lets you run alot more boost then giving you hp cause water doesn't add power. or you could just mist it in front of the intercooler which would cool it, plus do it all the time on the street but the track guys might be a little mad. Most racers take an open nitrous bottle and freeze they're intercooler but remember they can lift off the body....

I'm going to sum this all up for you guys. All this non-sense about spraying the intercooler, and water injection, etc. are simply for people who are afraid to use nitrous! You want the cooling affects, but you don't want to have to admit to someone that "oh my God, the horror" you are using nitrous oxide. Why waste nitrous by spraying it on to the intercooler, when you can spray it into the intake tract, get a MUCH better intercooling affect, AND get the added horsepower the oxygen in nitrous will give you? Why spray a 30 HP shot on to the intercooler, when you can spray a 30HP shot into the motor and likely gain 60++ HP??? And for you no-brainers out there, the size of the shot you spray on to your intercooler has NO bearing on how much HP you gain. If you are spraying a 30 shot on your IC now, and you picked up 20HP, don't fool yourself into thinking that if you sprayed your intercooler with 150 shot that you'll pick up 125HP. Seriously guys...educate yourselves a bit before trying these things. And don't make statements like you know what you are talking about. Rather, ask questions, and listen to those who know better. We'd ALL be better off...

Regards,

 

[95talontsi]

uhmm lets see , spraying a crap load of co2 on my intercooler do you think that the air intake might take some of that up, maybe, has anyone opened up compressed gas before, and some people run small turbos and nitrous+ small turbo= turbo rebuild so don't assume you know everything, I'm not saying to use nitrous it's a waste of money, but a budget co2 or water injection/ sprayer is not a bad idea considering I've seen one made for 20$

 

[RocketDSM]

I fully understand that the shot of NOS will have nothing to do with how much HP it will gain, duh. My point was that he (Adam) wasn't using some monster 250 shot nozzle. It was just a dinky little 37 shot.

Yes, in general shooting NOS into open atmosphere would be a waste. Shoot NOS in Cali. PLEASE. Any way you want, just try. Our cops (I swear) can smell NOS five miles away. The farther my Venom bottle stays from their eyes the better (it is being squeezed under the trunk deck cover). I have no problem admitting I use nitrous (once I do). So what, it works, I'm taking advantage of it. The problem is the legality of it and what BETTER uses might we find for it. If I can shoot the NOS through a 37 jet it will last a lot longer than the 150 jet (oh wait....I don't use jets). Now I can make my NOS stretch between fills. As far as shooting a 30 shot direct and getting "60++" direct from the engine.....good luck.

As for the ongoing claim that if done you'll get CO2 in the intake tract....I don't believe it. Even if some does end up bleeding up into the engine bay you can seal it off with some simple sheet metal and welding.

 

[b00sted99-X]

did anyone figure out how to make this for real cheap yet? i see its being sold here -- not many details though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1850903367

the guy was using it on his stock 2G SMIC between runs -- works with a simple on/off switch. i don't think the point of this invention was to spray CO2 the entire time you run... just to get rid of heatsoak...

 

[RocketDSM]

Not a bad deal per se. Not sure if you can't build on cheaper yourself. I am just waiting for my car to quit breaking so I can afford to pay the machinist to make the bracket to hold my CO2 tanks.

 

[b00sted99-X]

well i'm just thinking $20 for a 20oz co2 tank from a paintball store... hoses are a couple bucks.. a nozzle, a few more bucks.. switch, solenoid what not. i see it costing less than $50 bone but i'm just assuming these prices. someone once said that a professionally built 'purge kit' by one of the nitrous vendors looked like some stuff that could be bought off the shelf at home depot for a lot less... you know how cheap us DSMers are

 

[NosLaser]

...you know how cheap us DSMers are ...

Nothing against you personally, but it's really not funny.

Regards,

 

[EclipsingU]

Yes you can use CO2. Nitrous Xpress' N-tercooler uses either N2O or CO2 Might wanna check thier site out to see more how they do it. I believe what they do is They pipe the CO2 or N2O into piping that sits infront of the intercooler and allow Air to flow over that. This is already cooling the intercoolers incoming temps, so nx says, by 50-75 degrees making the intercooler much more efficient.