HKS or Crower Cams?

[L2RTSiAWD]

It's cams time and after reading some previous threads. My choices are:

HKS 264/264-600$
Crower 64412-450$


Let me know what you guys think.

Later,

 

[NDgsx]

I can't say I have any direct experience with crower cams, anything I say on them is simply passed on from other people.
I have the HKS 264/264 combo. I am very happy with them. I have no dyno chart, put they do pull hard to around 7k. Very big difference with the 20G. The butt dyno did not notice a decrease in low end torque.
On average HKS cams are ground almost perfectly on index (ie when you degree them they match the cam card specs).
If you go with HKS cams I would say go with the 264/272s though. Then you never have to wonder if you could have made more power with them.
The crowers tend to be ground a little more off index than the HKS cams, but much closer than Webs. I would not recomend their "race" cams (I can't remember their grinds off the top of my head, I don't know the duration of the ones you're looking at) unless you are running very high compression pistons (if that doesn't make any sense read this really quick: http://e30m3performance.com/myths/more_myths1/comp_ratio/comp_ratio.htm).

I think they are both good choices, but if I was getting crowers I would definetly get adjustable cam gears and degree them. With HKS cams I would check them, but you probably won't need to correct the cam timing.

hope that helps a little bit

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I'm not sure about the idle quality with the 264/272 combo and I have to pass emissions. those are my only issues which made me think about going 264/264

 

[NDgsx]

My friends 91 doesn't eight stroke at idle with the 264/272 combo. It's not as bad as you think.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Fine then it's settled I'm going with the 264/272 combo. Do I need upgraded valve springs and retainers or is it just a good idea? My car will never see above the stock rev limiter.

Later,

 

[NDgsx]

You won't be getting valve float bad enough to cause problems with the stock springs and retainers. It's always a good idea to replace your valve springs once you are over 75k, but it's such a pain unless you have the head off that I wouldn't bother.

 

[logic]

The "other site" has an article that was just posted about Web vs. Crower vs. HKS; basically just a summation of opinions from people who own or have tried them.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Yes I read thru that whole thing which is what promted my question but since my car has 63k and the head will be off I might a well get the vavlve springs replaced. Here is another question. the crower is a single vavle sping and retainer kit for 250. web chargs 450 and there is dual-vavle spring setup since I won't be going over stick rev limit is the single spring fine?

Later,

 

[NDgsx]

Dang they found some old posts of mine! I thought I had the 264/272 combo, that's what my friend Adam told me when I bought the eclipse off him. Take the head apart and found out they are both 264s
I learned some more since then too, that stuff is pretty much true, but there are a few errors.

I'd go with the crower kit, to stiff of springs and you'll wear your valve seats faster. I bought HKS valve springs a while back for $160, I've never actually put them in though.
Replace the retainer clips while you're in there, just in case. Also get some clover lapping compound from napa and lap the valve seats, it will give a better seal.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I noticed turbotrix sells valve guides should I replace those. Basically I;m getting my head ported first so since they have to take it apart I will have then replace the valve springs an retainers the valve guides if I should then when i get the head back the cams will go in.

Later,

 

[NDgsx]

Only if they need to be. Have the machine shop use a inside micrometer on them to see if they are in spec. That means measuring the valve stem too.
On the few engines I've worked on the clearance has never been out of spec. Always check though.
You do HAVE to replace the stem seals anytime you're in there.

 

[RocketDSM]

I did some math a long time ago and lost my numbers since but here is what I remember. Also, I never looked into HKS's, sorry.

The WEB:
Using the middle grind (not basic street, but not the full on race grind) it was about 35% more flow than a stock cam. This easily explains the lumpy idle and needing something to acocunt for fuel changes at lower RPM.

The CROWER:
Again, using the middle grind. It had about 10% more flow than stock. This would explain why not a lot of people are using them, and why it doesn't take extra equipment to run them.

My math could be off, so if someone wants to recheck it, GREAT. But for power, I saw go with the WEB. There have been some reliability problems, yes. Has anyone been screwed over and not gotten new cams? Not that I've heard about. We all know that more power means more stress on the engine and things break (usually the tranny for poor us). I'm not saying that WEB is right for having excessive problems, but some problems SHOULD have been expected by people running them.

Just for my .02, I plan on running the WEBs with a Crower Spring/Retainer/Guide setup. I also plan on using oversize valves. Flow like a mother and let everything else play catch-up.

 

[larryd]

which Crower cams are you looking at for only 10% gain? the ones I have which are Stage 2 are a little larger profile then the HKS 272 272 combo..

 

[RocketDSM]

Like I said....my math could be off. And I did the math almost a year ago, lots could have changed since. I've been wanting cams, but don't want to do it until I am doing the whole head.

 

[larryd]

yeah, I did the whole crower setup.. Ill tell you and everyone else how it all works out once I get my car back together.. new turbo and all

 

[DSMu4ia]

A couple fast guys switched from either the stage 2 or 3 Crowers, to dually HKS 272's, and gained a few mph.

HKSs are the best cams out for our cars currently, as far as idle, manufacturing, and overall performance.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about going to them...wish I could say the same thing about Web/Crower.

On a side note...common phrase is still held true here, as yo definately get what you pay for in this deal.

 

[larryd]

i would have to agree with you on that, even though I have the Crower I havent heard a single person complain about the HKS other then the price

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Well i found a deal on some HKS 264/272 for 500 bucks brand new in box. Those should be here by friday and then I'll decide if I want to install them myself or not.

Later,