EGR delete: what can and can't be deleted??

[ishnish]

Well I didn't know where to post this so I thought maybe this would be okay. If not then I apologize in advance and feel free to move this over to another section.

Anyway,

I wanted to delete my EGR and was wondering that, other than deleting the hoses, can I delete the valves and solenoids that don't seem to have connections any more as well?

Here's a pic of the 2g EGR delete:

Taboo speed shop vacuum diagram and removal for 1g and 2g - Mitsu-Media

I noticed that after the delete, the purge control valve, EGR valve, evap canister, aren't depicted any more. Does that mean those can be deleted?

The EGR solenoid, EVAP purge solenoid, and fuel pressure solenoid in the diagram don't seem to have any more hoses running towards them or from them. Does that mean those can be deleted as well?

Also it seems in diagram 2 there is a new fpr installed with a boost gauge. That's probably what has to be done next. And I read that the diagram is wrong when it comes to the MBC and how it's T'd off from the bov and intake manifold down to the wastegate actuator. Apparently the compressor housing is a better spot since it compensates for any boost leaks? I'm not entirely sure.

What can I delete completely and what has to be left?

 

[DSMReviver]

If you are in Cali i would not delete anything. You won't pass an emission if you do. I suggest you keep them and plus you have a clean ass car why destroy it.

And people are willing to pay more for a dsm if everything is not f**k with.

 

[jpmxrider489]

If emission is important then keep everything. However I just did the delete. I removed the egr, charcoal canister and all the lines. I did keep the fuel pressure solinoid because it helps with starts.

 

[WES_393]

I suggest you keep them and plus you have a clean ass car why destroy it.

How is deleting emissions destroying the car? WTF


OP- The Taboo diagrams are correct and will work well with the exception of a few things.

1. The boost gauge should get it's own source. Don't T into the FPR, use the P nipple on the throttle body.

2. Don't T the wastegate into the BOV, they both need their own source.

3. In the Taboo diagrams they show the EGR and EVAP gone because it's easiest to take them out. Deleting the vacuum lines to the solenoids won't cause a CEL, but taking them out completely will which is why they are left in on the Taboo diagram. You can also find/make black off plates that go under the EGR valve so it still passes visual inspection.

But like others are saying, it will be difficult to pass emissions with these things deleted. I would suggest only blocking the EGR with the "coke can" method.

 

[miguelmcv]

I have deleted every single sensor in my car and put them back when smog comes.
I do have two wiring harness though.
You can delete all the sensor, but save them to smog it.
If you don't have link, you will get a cel by removing some sensor though.

 

[ishnish]

If you are in Cali i would not delete anything. You won't pass an emission if you do. I suggest you keep them and plus you have a clean ass car why destroy it.

And people are willing to pay more for a dsm if everything is not f**k with.

Deleting my EGR won't destroy my car. Emissions or smog is not a problem for me. And I don't ever plan to get rid of this car

If emission is important then keep everything. However I just did the delete. I removed the egr, charcoal canister and all the lines. I did keep the fuel pressure solinoid because it helps with starts.

Thank you for the reply. But is the fuel pressure solenoid able to be deleted if one chose to do so?

How is deleting emissions destroying the car? WTF


OP- The Taboo diagrams are correct and will work well with the exception of a few things.

1. The boost gauge should get it's own source. Don't T into the FPR, use the P nipple on the throttle body.

2. Don't T the wastegate into the BOV, they both need their own source.

3. In the Taboo diagrams they show the EGR and EVAP gone because it's easiest to take them out. Deleting the vacuum lines to the solenoids won't cause a CEL, but taking them out completely will which is why they are left in on the Taboo diagram. You can also find/make black off plates that go under the EGR valve so it still passes visual inspection.

But like others are saying, it will be difficult to pass emissions with these things deleted. I would suggest only blocking the EGR with the "coke can" method.

1. Are you absolutely positive the FPR isn't the best choice? I've read countless times that the FPR solenoid is the best option. Any threads that explain why the P nipple is best? Not questioning your knowledge but I'd just like to know.

2. Where would be a better spot?

3. I have link V3 so I could always get rid of the CELs. I just wanna know what I can delete without having any negative effects on my car. Emissions is not a problem.

I have deleted every single sensor in my car and put them back when smog comes.
I do have two wiring harness though.
You can delete all the sensor, but save them to smog it.
If you don't have link, you will get a cel by removing some sensor though.

So did you delete the purge control valve, EGR valve, evap canister, EGR solenoid, EVAP purge solenoid, and fuel pressure solenoid?

What exactly did you delete?

 

[streetillEagle]

You're in Modesto. I live in Sacramento. Smog is a pain, so I had to RE-install all the vac lines egr/solenoids and canister in the engine. I just passed smog last Saturday with fp2 cams evo 3 16g and manifold. Now that I passed that crap is going back into the "box-O-smog" parts I keep in the corner of my garage. For another 2yrs I also never T my fpr. I always give it its own dedicated vac line. It controls fuel and shouldn't share. One less thing to worry about.

 

[ishnish]

Like I said, I'm not worried about smog . So you deleted all of the solenoids and EGR stuff? So how did you give it it's own dedicated vacuum line? This is for your boost gauge yes?

I need to know if I can delete everything I've asked about in my original post! Lol. Can I delete everything I've stated without any adverse effects to the car? Or are there only certain things I can delete without worries? I need to know what can and what can't. CELs aren't a problem since I can rid them with link. Unless of course they're negatively affecting my car...

BTW Streetilleagle, your car is freaken' sexy!! I plan to do a photo shoot one day with a friend of mine and his dsm. You're more than welcome to join as we don't have 1Gs and you're local

 

[miguelmcv]

You delete all the sensors you just mention, there will be no negative effects, use a throttle nipple for your FPR and Boost Gauge.
Do what streetilleage said, ,keep all the parts and sensor for the smog.
I do the same thing and smog is every 2 years.

Basically, every singe sensor can be deleted, Having Link makes everything more easy.

 

[DSMReviver]

Destroying the car's emission maybe? perhaps you understood me, i like stock DSMs. People f with them so much there won't be any left on the road. starts with these little things like this into tearing everything apart. Thus why my forum name DSMReviver(i know its a little cheezy .

 

[ishnish]

You delete all the sensors you just mention, there will be no negative effects, use a throttle nipple for your FPR and Boost Gauge.
Do what streetilleage said, ,keep all the parts and sensor for the smog.
I do the same thing and smog is every 2 years.

Basically, every singe sensor can be deleted, Having Link makes everything more easy.

Okay man thanks now is it pretty difficult to delete all the things I've mentioned? What's a throttle nipple? Yes I definitely plan to keep them just in case I need them for future purposes.

Link definitely does make everything easy

Destroying the car's emission maybe? perhaps you understood me, i like stock DSMs. People f with them so much there won't be any left on the road. starts with these little things like this into tearing everything apart. Thus why my forum name DSMReviver(i know its a little cheezy .

That is true that people eff with them so much. I baby my car and plan to keep it from being destroyed. Don't worry it's in good hands I don't plan to do what most to. Haha I think the name is pretty cool actually.

 

[snowborder714]

1. Better version (corrected old ones) - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...cuum-diagram-removal-1g-2g.html#post152901120

2. Those diagrams show full emissions delete, not just removal of EGR and what else needs to be done. You can remove single components.

3. Throttle nipple = throttle body nipple (on the top)

4. Yes, it's easy to delete all the emissions. You might see some issues with hot starts after deleting the FPR solenoid, but that's about it (and even then, it's not that big of an issue). One thing I wouldn't recommend is chopping the plugs off the harness for some of the solenoids as they might prove useful in the future via triggering with link.

 

[ishnish]

1. Better version (corrected old ones) - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...cuum-diagram-removal-1g-2g.html#post152901120

2. Those diagrams show full emissions delete, not just removal of EGR and what else needs to be done. You can remove single components.

3. Throttle nipple = throttle body nipple (on the top)

4. Yes, it's easy to delete all the emissions. You might see some issues with hot starts after deleting the FPR solenoid, but that's about it (and even then, it's not that big of an issue). One thing I wouldn't recommend is chopping the plugs off the harness for some of the solenoids as they might prove useful in the future via triggering with link.

You never fail me snowborder . Thanks man. Well I'm gonna order the blobk off plate right now and start the delete as soon as it gets here. I'll post any questions I have along the way.

Oh I had a question. Was it the evap removal that makes your engine bay smell like gas when parked? I believe I had to route a hose down to under the car where the fumes can be let out. I forgot where I read this. But I guess it shouldn't be plugged for some important reason

 

[streetillEagle]

When I remove the canister I just let the evap line sit there. Haven't had any issues with gas smell . Maybe its due to the overwhelming smell of the engine smelling like hot A$$ OIL. I Swear I fix one oil leak, another starts! I had no cel from removing all smog stuff and I run a Magnus manifold so I don't need the egr block off plate. even though I have one sitting in the garage. Its used and It has a hole drilled in it though, anyone know why that would be?

 

[ishnish]

Lol I have an oil drain leak that is waiting to be fixed once I install my guages. Hopefully that is the only one. Okay good to know thank you. And as for the drilled hole., I've read people asking questions on whether they could drill and tap the hole of a block off plate for an accurate boost reading. But that's about it

 

[turboglenn]

Here's my take on deleting these after many years without them due to a stand alone ECU not requiring them at all (nor having true provisions for it)

1.) The EGR, is not open or in effect at WOT from everything i've gathered and in closed loop cruising HELPS GAS MILAGE... So other than clean looks there's no reason i have heard to really justify it other than cleaning up the engine bay a little () i wish i could putone back on, buy my cyclone manifold has n provision fopr it)

2.) The FP solenoid richens the mixture on hot re-starts because when the fuel sits in the rail after a hot shut down it boils or evaporates making "air pockets" in the fuel rail, this causes you to need a little extra cranking during hot re-starts and sometimesthe car will stall immediately after starting once ort twice in a row (my ECU allows the richening through the injector pulse and running the pump for a few seconds before i ever crank the engine so i don't have an issue with this.. if you have a system based on a stock ECU link DSMlink, this eill be a mionor inconvieniencefor you (plus a girl in the car will be thinking :this car';s kinda junky, can't even stay running' )

3.) If you do delete it you can get rid of the canisters and such that go with it but put a one way check valve on the fuel tank vent that runs to the charcoal canister

4.) none of these mods will gain you HP, and they will all make the car run a little "worse" either at startup or in fuel economy, so if the looks are worth it to you go ahead, but it's easy to just lengthen the vac lines and hide these solenoids too

NOw for "T'ing" into this and that for other objects... THE BOV should have it's own source as well as the wastegate (toa an extent) the reason they need/want their own is that they have large diaphrams that fluctuate upon operation causing "pulsation" in the signal of their repsective lines... There for if you're speed density, this would cause erratic MAP sensor readings to tap into them, if you're not SD and as long as none of the diaphrams have holes in them you will probably never notice the difference between hooking themtogether or not (just don't put the FR into one of the ones like BOV or wastegate)
\
You CAN T the boost gauge into theFPR line (before the solenoid) there's not enough volume of air used/moved by either one to cause a problem with the other.

MY lines are as follows

All TB nipples have been pulled out, holes tapped and filled with m5 set screws for a clean look

My BOV has it's own deidcated line (middle port on cyclone manifold)

My MAP sensor has it's own line (this is the really one of the two that are importanmt to not share a source with anything with a diaphram in it that fluctuates or is large in terms of the componeens hooked to vacum) I use the largest vac nipple that's not the brake booster one

My AFPR and boost gauge share a vacum source and it's never been an issue and if you think about the mechnaics behind how they work you'll understand why)

My wastegate gets it's boost source from the turbo compressor housing (although i'm considering dumping this route as i've experienced boost creep no matter how i setup the external gate and no matter which of the 3 boost controllers i've used since sourcing it there (ball and spring MBC, profec-B EBC< and haltech PWM duty cycle programmed pneumatic valve)

I'm not arguin wit anyone's opinion on what to do and not to do, but i think a lot of these "don't "T" into such and such" are things people once read and just repeat because it was important in the case where they fiurst read it, not knowqing the exact reason why it was important then and why it may not be important in some cases... if anyone has intelligent rebuttle to dispute my findings i'm always glad to carry on an intelligent, well mannered debate (not a flame war of "you'r an idiot, and "it has to because racecar" )

 

[ishnish]

(not a flame war of "you'r an idiot, and "it has to because racecar" )

Here's my take on deleting these after many years without them due to a stand alone ECU not requiring them at all (nor having true provisions for it)

1.) The EGR, is not open or in effect at WOT from everything i've gathered and in closed loop cruising HELPS GAS MILAGE... So other than clean looks there's no reason i have heard to really justify it other than cleaning up the engine bay a little () i wish i could putone back on, buy my cyclone manifold has n provision fopr it)

2.) The FP solenoid richens the mixture on hot re-starts because when the fuel sits in the rail after a hot shut down it boils or evaporates making "air pockets" in the fuel rail, this causes you to need a little extra cranking during hot re-starts and sometimesthe car will stall immediately after starting once ort twice in a row (my ECU allows the richening through the injector pulse and running the pump for a few seconds before i ever crank the engine so i don't have an issue with this.. if you have a system based on a stock ECU link DSMlink, this eill be a mionor inconvieniencefor you (plus a girl in the car will be thinking :this car';s kinda junky, can't even stay running' )

I basically want to clean up my engine bay and get a bit more space. I figured since the difficulty of an EGR delete doesn't seem too hard, I should go ahead and do it. Would I be able richen my injector pulse and keep my fuel pump running before I crank the engine on my car if I have link? I had a had time understanding when I read what you stated on that. I think you meant I wouldn't be able to because I need a standalone.

3.) If you do delete it you can get rid of the canisters and such that go with it but put a one way check valve on the fuel tank vent that runs to the charcoal canister

What would be the purpose of this?

4.) none of these mods will gain you HP, and they will all make the car run a little "worse" either at startup or in fuel economy, so if the looks are worth it to you go ahead, but it's easy to just lengthen the vac lines and hide these solenoids too

This I understand. I'd have to see the engine bays of who else did this to be able to judge what the better option would be for a cleaner engine bay. For example, I'm not too much of a fan of lowering the location of my battery to make space for, say, a catch can. Idk though..

NOw for "T'ing" into this and that for other objects... THE BOV should have it's own source as well as the wastegate (toa an extent) the reason they need/want their own is that they have large diaphrams that fluctuate upon operation causing "pulsation" in the signal of their repsective lines... There for if you're speed density, this would cause erratic MAP sensor readings to tap into them, if you're not SD and as long as none of the diaphrams have holes in them you will probably never notice the difference between hooking themtogether or not (just don't put the FR into one of the ones like BOV or wastegate)
\
You CAN T the boost gauge into theFPR line (before the solenoid) there's not enough volume of air used/moved by either one to cause a problem with the other.

MY lines are as follows

All TB nipples have been pulled out, holes tapped and filled with m5 set screws for a clean look

My BOV has it's own deidcated line (middle port on cyclone manifold)

My MAP sensor has it's own line (this is the really one of the two that are importanmt to not share a source with anything with a diaphram in it that fluctuates or is large in terms of the componeens hooked to vacum) I use the largest vac nipple that's not the brake booster one

My AFPR and boost gauge share a vacum source and it's never been an issue and if you think about the mechnaics behind how they work you'll understand why)

My wastegate gets it's boost source from the turbo compressor housing (although i'm considering dumping this route as i've experienced boost creep no matter how i setup the external gate and no matter which of the 3 boost controllers i've used since sourcing it there (ball and spring MBC, profec-B EBC< and haltech PWM duty cycle programmed pneumatic valve)

I'm not arguin wit anyone's opinion on what to do and not to do, but i think a lot of these "don't "T" into such and such" are things people once read and just repeat because it was important in the case where they fiurst read it, not knowqing the exact reason why it was important then and why it may not be important in some cases... if anyone has intelligent rebuttle to dispute my findings i'm always glad to carry on an intelligent, well mannered debate

This is some good info that I'll probably have to ask about later . It's all so overwhelming for me as of now.

 

[ishnish]

Guys so I took a pic of my throttle body and the "P" nipple already has the vacuum line removed. Is this normal? Because judging from the taboo diagram, the p nipple has hoses leading to the EVAP purge solenoid, purge control valve, and EVAP canister. I don't even have a vacuum line coming off my "P" though. I had my friend (who has a 98 gsx) take a pic of his tb and he has the same situation. Does that mean it was already removed previously or do they come like that from the factory? Reason I want to know is cause idk what those look like in person and want to remove them. I just don't know if they've already been removed or just the vacuum lines have been.

 

[ishnish]

Alright guys so I got to installing my EGR delete plate. But I can't proceed any furhter because some lines are confusing me. Idk which ones are important and what can be removed or not. Some seem to go to things that get a lot more complicated and run through the whole engine bay or something. Idk if this should be messed with. Anyway, I got some pics and along with them have questions as well.

Here's the pic of the block off.

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Gotta' love STM =)

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If anyone could tell me what all these lines represented by color represent which hose, which ones can be removed, and if the circle is the EGR solenoid. And just as a *CORRECTION* the greyish light blue line is actually the yellow line in the next pics.

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The purple line seems to split into two lines. I'm not sure if I can remove both the yellow and purple lines as will see soon where they lead to.

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What are these two things? My guess was that they were the purge control valve and EVAP canister but again, I'm not sure.

Please help cause I really don't wanna mess anything up here.

 

[gofer]

You can remove all of them, including the charcoal canister, since you've removed the EGR valve now. Just be sure to cap the ports off on top of the throttle body and the bigger port on the side of the intake, where the vacuum line ran from the charcoal canister.

Also, once you pull the charcoal canister you'll notice a greenish check valve coming off a hardline that snakes under the car (between the subframe) with a vacuum line attaching it. I recommend leaving that check valve attached on the hardline side, if you don't it will smell like fuel in your car. That hardline that it's attached to is your gas tank ventilation so that check valve relieves un-wanted pressure in the tank, however, if you remove it then the gas fumes will make their way out of that hardline and into the cabin.

You can also remove the sensors on the firewall (behind the intake manifold) as those, too, are emissions related and will serve no purpose being there now. Be sure that, if you do remove them, that you zip-tie the wires/connectors that went to them up and out of the way. If you let them hang there's a change they could work their way down into your axle and turn the engine wiring harness into a big yo-yo string while you're driving. Ask me how I know, I learned the hard way...

 

[ishnish]

The thing is, Idk where my charcoal canister is. As for the last picture I posted, I found out that the thing on the right is the purge control valve which can be removed. But what about the thing next to it? What is that? And can it be removed?

Okay so I can leave the check valve there instead of having to get another one. That's good to know. And this is what I was referring to when I posted about the engine bay smelling of fuel if you removed one of the emissions stuff.

Yikes thanks for the warning I'll be sure to zip tie those wires down.

I cannot seem to find my EVAP purge solenoid. There's no line running from the "P" on my throttle body and judging from the taboo diagram, that's the line that leads you to the EVAP purge solenoid and EVAP canister. The EVAP canister isn't the same as the charcoal canister is it? Google seems to bring it up every time I search for the EVAP canister for a dsm...

Thanks again Gofer. That one post helped a lot.

Guys, can I remove the purple line from my second picture? It leads to the purge control valve so I figured maybe I could.. Same goes for the light bluish grey line which is actually the yellow line in the follow up pics. That leads to the purge control as well.

 

[snowborder714]

Check the driver's side front corner under the headlight for the canister. It'll be square and not round.

 

[ishnish]

Which canister are you referring to snowborder? The charcoal canister or the EVAP canister?

 

[snowborder714]

Charcoal.

 

[ishnish]

Well that settles that. But where is the EVAP canister then? Anyone have a pic to reference it?