Need info on FP's Big16G

[Mitsu_Racing]

Anybody here have any if on forced performance's Big 16G. I want to know how much extra it cost to have it clipped and ported. Does fp offer a 16G to 20G upgrade, if not will extrememotorsports do it for me even thought i didn't buy the turbo from them. I know the benifits of porting but what is the benifit of clipping the wheel.

 

[larryd]

correct me if Im wrong but clipping the wheel makes more top end power, but makes the turbo spool up slower.. definitely a plus for a FWD DSM..

 

[Killwicky]

We do upgrade 16g's to 20g's. We charge $75 to clip, and $95 for porting.

Forced Performance

Porting includes the turbine housing inlet and outlet. If you want to add a 34mm flapper then that is abit extra.

 

[Mitsu_Racing]

How much for the 16G to 20G upgrade. What is the benefit of 34mm flapper. Will you have your sale going through August 28, that's my birthday and that is when my girl wants to buy me a turbo.

Larry,
I really want to buy your pocketlogger and Apexi AFC. How much you want to sell them for when your ready. Thanks.

 

[IPT]

Originally posted by Killwicky
We do upgrade 16g's to 20g's. We charge $75 to clip, and $95 for porting.

Forced Performance

Porting includes the turbine housing inlet and outlet. If you want to add a 34mm flapper then that is abit extra.

Brian when you clip the turbine wheel do you do it by hand or on a grinder?

Also is the porting done by hand or on a milling station?? Also the turbine outlet is a bell port correct??

 

[Killwicky]

Originally posted by Mitsu_Racing
How much for the 16G to 20G upgrade. What is the benefit of 34mm flapper. Will you have your sale going through August 28, that's my birthday and that is when my girl wants to buy me a turbo.

You mean taking your supplied (used) 16g and upgrading to a TDO5h, 20g with a TDO6 cover? We can do that but honestly I don't like quoting on message boards because it will be here forever regardless of future price flunctuations.
Please shoot me an email.

If 16g prices do anything in the next few months it more than likley be going down.

 

[Killwicky]

Originally posted by IPT


Brian when you clip the turbine wheel do you do it by hand or on a grinder?

Also is the porting done by hand or on a milling station?? Also the turbine outlet is a bell port correct??

I do not clip or port turbine housings like ET/DSMP does, no. Does that make mine inferior? I am asking you. By what standard do you base your comparison? For future reference there isn't a turbine wheel clipping machine.

In most cases our current practice of porting turbine housings involves having them rough cut in a cnc machine. Then they are finished out by hand to suit individual needs. The inlet will be a perfect cirlcle but is not a cookie cutter port job by any means.

The turbine housing outlet is a bell port..correct.

Pictures for reference:
Porting
clipping

 

[IPT]

Originally posted by Killwicky


For future reference there isn't a turbine wheel clipping machine.

OK... How about a cylindrical grinder. I am a machinist and know that doing that type of presion work by hand CAN result in inaccurate and unrepeatable results. There maybe something I am missing in the whole process. Could you talk us through a normal setup and procedure for clipping a turbine wheel??

This would greatly help anyone that is not sure what is ment by clipping and maybe give a better understand to why this is done.

 

[DMS-WhiteGSX]

I have the turbo, and I love it. Pulls strong the whole way past redline

 

[Robert Young]

"Brian when you clip the turbine wheel do you do it by hand or on a grinder? "

Neither, we use a lathe with a grinding attachement.


Clipping a turbine wheel requires the turbine wheel and shaft to be spun in a lathe while a grinding attachment attached to the compound at the desired angle is moved back and forth across the length of the outlet end of the blade tip until the entire length of the blade is ground down to the desrired angle.

If you aren't very familiar with machining operations this may seem sort of abstract but someone asked for a desription of how we do it, so there you have it.

I'm not sure what the "by hand" part is all about, I have been building turbos for years and have never seen anybody walk over to a bench grinder and grind off the ends of the blades

If you would like more info on our FPBig16g you can check this out.

http://www.forcedperformance.net/big16G_sale.htm


The idea behind clipping is to make the turbine wheel seem larger than it actually is. On 16g or Big16g turbos I don't recommend clipping the TW unless you are setting up to get the most power at higher boost pressures (above 20psi). For 7 out of 10 guys the best results are produced on the standard turbine wheel. On the other hand if you are trying to get the last bit of power out of a 16g type turbo the clipping will help the top end by dropping the exhaust manifold back pressure by as much as 15-20psi when running 20psi intake pressure.

If this sounds like it is getting a little technical, it is. There is a lot I skimmed over, and I'm sure a few will step in to point out a few details they feel are important, but that is the story in a nutshell.

 

[IPT]

That was the answers I was looking for.

I have seen a couple of clipping jobs that the blades did not look like they were really straight. The blades where they had been clipped looked wavy.. I would guess that was a "hand" job.

I took a picture I will have to see if I can find it..

 

[Robert Young]

IPT,

Glad to help shed some light on the subject.

I think this may be one of the first threads in which I have participated where the discussion hasn't turned into some kind of war of the turbo shops thread (that topic is geting pretty old). It is certainly refreshing to keep things on a positive note.

You suggested a cylindrical grinder might be used. I have never seen one used for cliping TW's. I think one could be used but you wouldn't want to use one all the time since it would wear out the side of your grinding stone due to the fact that OD grinders are made to grind on the OD rather than at a 90 degree angle to the OD surface which is where the clipping material is removed from. Plus the fact that you would have to be able to alter the angle of the stone.

All the cylindrical grinders that I have seen do not have a way to resurface the side of the stone, just the end used for grinding OD's. The OD grinder stones are very large in diameter and very thin, for use in grinding crankshaft journals and other sorts of OD's on shafts. This shape allows the stone to be redressed over and over for long service life.

If you used the side of it you would run out of stone alot faster, but I bet you could get the job done quite nicely if you didn't mind the extra expense of rapid stone replacement and had a way to adjust the angle.

If I have learned anything in life it is that there can be many good solutions to the same problem.

 

[IPT]

I have seen the end used for clipping before. There was an adjustment on the head to change the angle. I have a grinder at work that we use to sharpen LARGE drill bits (1.5" and larger) on that would work great only thing is that it is hand spun.

 

[IPT]

Here I found the pic of the clipping. Would this be considered bad, average or good?? I made the pic a negative so that the blades would show up better. (bad picture)

 

[Robert Young]

Hmm. Hard for me to see much from that picture. It looks like the one on the right has some FOD (foreign Object Damage) and a bent fin. The one on the left has been clipped but I can't see much detail.

Brian posted a pretty clear picture of a clipped turbine wheel earlier in this thread, if it was done properly it should look about like that. I have seen the machined surface left more coarse sometimes as turbos come through the shop, but that really doesn't have any effect on the operation of the turbocharger. We finish up with a finer grit to get a smoother finish, but it's just for looks.

I hope this helps clarify this issue for some of you guys that had questions regarding turbine wheel clipping.

Best Regards
Robert Young

 

[IPT]

I one on the right is a Brand new TDO6H wheel.

The one on the left is a Really agressive clipp is it not??

I would think that clipping the wheel THAT much would hurt your spool so much that it would not make up for the top end.

 

[Mitsu_Racing]

http://www.forcedperformance.net/big16G_sale.htm

This page is new right, i haven't seen it. Man $999 for the Big16 package deal sound right up my alley. Is the install kit that comes with it the hacker tweaker kit or the full kit that usually sells for $300. Thanks.

 

[Robert Young]

We recently revised the 2g kit after we realized that it could be done much less expensively. The kit that is included in this $999 package ($899 for 1g) is regularly priced at $175. We no longer offer a more expensive 2g 16g install kit.

Also if any of you are having trouble getting thru on the main phone line feel free to use the back line if you need to place an order. There isn't a answering machine on it so you can't leave a message, but at least it is a second line into the shop. 512-376-4437.

 

[Mitsu_Racing]

What is a 34mm flappers purpose. Sorry i don't know all that much about turbo's.

 

[larryd]

how bout some special deals like that on the Green man .. time to go from this lil big 28 to something BIGGER