[RESOLVED] Is this timing wrong? Pictures inside.

[Gregory]

My balance belt broke and knocked my crankshaft position sensor off. I took the car to my mechanic to take care of the issues. While he was at it, he replaced the timing belt. Now the car has a horrible misfire/rough idle. He said it was in cylinders 2 & 3. This was never an issue before. I wanted to double check the timing. I'm not an expert on doing timing because I've never replaced a timing belt myself, but this did not look right to me, but I wanted someone's opinion who knew for sure. I thought the marks were supposed to be flush with the head (and in line with each other) all at the same time. I turned the crank by hand until I got TDC. So, this didn't look right to me. Is it off, or is this ok?

<img src="http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/5/5/4/4/5/picture_002.jpg" alt="Timing Job" />

I realized the first picture doesn't show the dowel pins, so here is another.
<img src="http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/5/5/4/4/5/picture_001.jpg" alt="Timing Job" />

 

[SonySlave]

Yes those are off for sure. Have the mechanic redo it.

 

[cyclonekid77]

Did you make sure the mark for the crank is lined up? If the crank mark is lined up and your cam gear marks look like that then its definitely off a tooth or two.

 

[Gregory]

I used a socket extension is plug one to get cylinder 1 to TDC. I thought it seemed obvious that it was wrong regardless of the crank position. I honestly don't know how to even check that. They are never going to line up right, correct? So I didn't think it mattered, but like I said, I'm not expert in this area.

Oh, and if it's off, that would be the reason for the rough idle, right? Or would it being off a tooth or two not make it do that?

 

[jrohner]

It definitely looks like the exhaust is retarded, or the intake is advanced. The exhaust cam is the tricky cam to get set right, but from your pics it looks as though it may be the intake cam or even both (if you are indeed at TDC). The 'mechanic' you brought it to probably doesn't know these cars very well, and he thought they were lined up (but it changes once the belt has the correct tension). He didn't double check his work like he should have, especially on something as critical as cam timing.

What you really need to do is make SURE you're at TDC (the dampers sometimes spin, so that timing mark is not reliable), and then put a ruler across the 4 cam timing marks. Also check each cam by putting the ruler across the 2 marks on the respective cam gear, this will tell you what one is off because you can move the ruler to see if changing the timing 1 tooth on that cam would make it right, worse, or make it off in the opposite direction.

Remember, they won't line up to all 4 marks dead on, but each cams should line up within 1/2 a tooth (as you can't make 1/2 tooth adjustments). If you can get or make a tool to take the tension off (the 'tool' is basically just a long bolt), the timing can be fixed without removing anything else and you'll be done in less than 1/2 an hour.

Yes the idle quality should be very poor this way.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I used a socket extension is plug one to get cylinder 1 to TDC. I thought it seemed obvious that it was wrong regardless of the crank position. I honestly don't know how to even check that. They are never going to line up right, correct? So I didn't think it mattered, but like I said, I'm not expert in this area.

Oh, and if it's off, that would be the reason for the rough idle, right? Or would it being off a tooth or two not make it do that?

There's enough play in the stroke for the piston to appear to be at TDC when using the 'screwdriver in cylinder 1' method. You need to remove your timing covers and verify that the crank and oil timing marks are where they need to be.

 

[Gregory]

I will take it back to my mechanic and have him redo it (I mean, I did pay him to do it) if you think there is enough evidence here that it is not correct. I don't really like taking off the lower timing cover. I think it's kinda a pain, but maybe I do it a bad way. So the way I figure, if it's obvious that it's wrong, I'll tell him to do it untill he gets it right.

OR... is that fact that it's not 100% TDC mean that it could actually be correct? It is definetally wrong, correct?

Thank you guys for your help!

 

[Calan]

It's wrong... take it back.

Look at it this way; even if the t-belt is correct somehow (highly doubtful), your 'mechanic' introduced new problems of some mysterious type (*cough* t-belt *cough*) that is causing the car to run like crap. So he needs to fix it.

 

[Rob10_99]

+1 its advanced/retarded one tooth on both gears, looks like there was play when the pin was pulled. He needs to read the vfaq ffs.

 

[snowborder714]

If you can get the cam gear marks "lined up" and they're not straight across, it's wrong.

 

[Gregory]

Well that just about settles that. I took it too him, and showed him the pictures and he agreed that it was wrong, so he's going to take care of it. I'm pretty confident that will clear that problem up.

I appreciate the help as always guys! I'll give you the final update when I hear back from him/get the car back.

Edit:

Well, I showed him the pictures and he admit to having the timing done wrong. He fixed free of charge of coarse, and now the car is back to its good old self! Thanks!!!