Starter wont engage when warm

kre8ive_kustomz · 03-25-2008, 03:11 PM

Im having a problem with my car, the starter wont engage once the car warms up, there is no click on the starter at all, i turn the key and nothing at all happens. the clutch switch is fine, if i turn the key to start and toggle the clutch in/out the little box next to the ecu clicks but nothing else happens. this morning it started right up, went across town and stopped to get fuel and it wouldn't restart, it sat 15 or so minutes then i had a friend start it while I wiggled wires, it started when i wiggled the starter wires.... when i got it home i checked all the wires and everything was fine, starter wires were good, ground wire was tight.... i put new ends on the battery side and put everything back together, started right up. I then went to my bank, came home and shut it off now it wont restart again. I would normally think the starter was bad but it doesn't even click. I would check the relay but i dont see one any where.... unless that little box by the ecu is it or its on the starter itself. BTW this is on a 95 TSI. appreciate the help.

blcknspo0ln · 03-25-2008, 07:27 PM

This is a strange one. So when the car is warm, the car doesn't react at all when you turn the key into the ON position? My old talon had a hot-start problem where when it got hot, it would keep cranking but wouldn't ignite. Turns out it was the coolant temperature sensor.

kre8ive_kustomz · 03-25-2008, 08:29 PM

well to the ON position everything that normally comes on still does, i can hear the abs mod click, the warning lights come on and everything, its when i get to the start position that nothing happens. after i wrote this earlier i went out and it started right up, i went to the gas station, came home and pulled it in the garage, shut it off then tried to restart it a few times, no issues this time at all, started right up. this issue is a bit wierd, i changed the terminals, then the car would turn over really slow like the compression was x2. The battery would get hot and smell so i swapped it for another one, not it cranks over at full cranking power, just not always when i want it to.

Puscifer · 03-27-2008, 02:40 AM

A little more dedication to this thread would be appreciated. I'm having the same issues right now. I've checked everything as well, New cables, battery, starter.. checked the clutch switch, it's working properly and engaging. Sometimes after warm up and try to start it again, I can hear the starter selonoid kick in, then a second later it engages, other times i don't even hear it getting power. A couple of times I've noticed a few rapid clicks coming from the relay near the ECU. I thought my ignition switch was going out or something, tinkered with it and all was well. I'm stumped. All operations are normal when you go to start it, Even see the indicator lights dim as it goes to juice up as normal just no starter engagement. Thanks in advance!

blcknspo0ln · 03-27-2008, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kre8ive_kustomz

well to the ON position everything that normally comes on still does, i can hear the abs mod click, the warning lights come on and everything, its when i get to the start position that nothing happens. after i wrote this earlier i went out and it started right up, i went to the gas station, came home and pulled it in the garage, shut it off then tried to restart it a few times, no issues this time at all, started right up. this issue is a bit wierd, i changed the terminals, then the car would turn over really slow like the compression was x2. The battery would get hot and smell so i swapped it for another one, not it cranks over at full cranking power, just not always when i want it to.

You've got me stumped. Do a little more poking around and let me know your findings. I would suggest checking compression, voltage at the battery, voltage at the alternator post, pull the starter and have it checked (autozone does free checking).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puscifer

A little more dedication to this thread would be appreciated. I'm having the same issues right now. I've checked everything as well, New cables, battery, starter.. checked the clutch switch, it's working properly and engaging. Sometimes after warm up and try to start it again, I can hear the starter selonoid kick in, then a second later it engages, other times i don't even hear it getting power. A couple of times I've noticed a few rapid clicks coming from the relay near the ECU. I thought my ignition switch was going out or something, tinkered with it and all was well. I'm stumped. All operations are normal when you go to start it, Even see the indicator lights dim as it goes to juice up as normal just no starter engagement. Thanks in advance!

So you are also experiencing this non-startup when the engine is warm?

kre8ive_kustomz · 03-27-2008, 08:33 AM

compressions were all above 150, voltage at the battery was good, i didnt think to check the alt. the issue seems to only be after running the car. i looked in my dealer electrical manual and it shows two connections at the starter, i only noticed one so i'm going to pull it today and see whats up. I have 4 of these cars so have an assload of spare parts, maybe i'll toss a different one in. i'll post my findings this afternoon.

Simpleman1 · 03-27-2008, 08:57 AM

The starter solenoid might be your problem.

Puscifer · 03-27-2008, 01:59 PM

Yeah, same problems. The solenoids for two starters - Both work fine and both are bosch with working solenoids. I've recently done a head job to it, etc. I'm now back-tracking on everything to make sure nothing got contamitated or if i missed something. Hopefully someone has had this happen and will pop up with a solution.

kre8ive_kustomz · 03-27-2008, 03:07 PM

i took my starter out this morning, traced the main wires to the middle of the engine, if there is an issue with the wiring atleast i have it narrowed down to the wire. I took the starter to advance and had it tested, worked fine. The only thing left is the relay under the dash. i spliced in a wire to the ignition "hot" wire on the starter so if i have this issue again atleast i wont be stranded, nuetral, pop the hood and touch the wire to the pos..... up she'll go.... theoretically lol...... if she does it again i will trace the switch wire into the firewall and post my results.

yesItsdsm · 03-27-2008, 03:58 PM

Your problem could be at the battery itself, If you dont have a good connection there you could be geting enough voltage to start the electronics on your car but the starter isn't getting enough power. Thats what it sounds like to me.

While you are fooling around with your starter it wouldn't be a bad idea to swap the ground out, you can get some ground wire from AutoZone for cheap and it would only take a couple minutes to do. Alot of times the ground wires need to be replaced (I replaced ground wires on 2 of my DSM's)

Good luck!

kre8ive_kustomz · 03-27-2008, 05:48 PM

that was one of the first things i did when this issue started was replace the terminals

kre8ive_kustomz · 03-29-2008, 01:04 PM

now that i think about it its a possibility the ground conection on the bellhousing was the issue, i had just rebuilt the awd trans.

yesItsdsm · 04-01-2008, 11:11 AM

You should update this thread. Was it the ground like I thought it was?

kre8ive_kustomz · 04-01-2008, 08:11 PM

I'm not sure, it could have been, I scuffed all connections but I havent had any issues since. I would say the trans ground wasn't holding but it was the power wire I had to shake to get the car to start.

Puscifer · 04-02-2008, 01:52 PM

Sorry for the delay, I checked back over everything and have a relay on order from the stealership as a last resource. I've changed out the starter with THREE different ones, all do the same after it's been ran to warming temp. and a little beyond. Sometimes it'll crank, others the selonoid won't even get juice. I've replaced all the juice cables to the starter, battery, checked my ground kit. Dremel tool buffed the ground connection on the motor to make sure it was strong.

Question at hand. What exactly would cause the selonoid not to get power other than a bad connection? Underpowered battery? I have the stock size in it but, no big juice pulling mods so i don't see why. Bad selonoid on 3 starters? doubtful, two are bosch. I have no hair left =\.

Puscifer · 04-02-2008, 02:42 PM

Here's an older link i didn't find while searching previously, i guess the criteria i was looking for was to "narrow" but i found it on google while i was looking up the relay P#.

Starting Problems - Any Idea's

Seems the thread is based on the selonoids that do actually click when you try to turn it over, however mine doesn't but it maybe a good start to check all the wiriing to the starter and make sure they're "proper".

kre8ive_kustomz · 04-02-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puscifer

Sorry for the delay, I checked back over everything and have a relay on order from the stealership as a last resource. I've changed out the starter with THREE different ones, all do the same after it's been ran to warming temp. and a little beyond. Sometimes it'll crank, others the selonoid won't even get juice. I've replaced all the juice cables to the starter, battery, checked my ground kit. Dremel tool buffed the ground connection on the motor to make sure it was strong.

Question at hand. What exactly would cause the selonoid not to get power other than a bad connection? Underpowered battery? I have the stock size in it but, no big juice pulling mods so i don't see why. Bad selonoid on 3 starters? doubtful, two are bosch. I have no hair left =\.

in my quest for answers with this issue i found only a few components hooked in the system, your issue is within the wiring, relay or solenoid, if your battery is losing power then it could be others but you didnt mention having to recharge the system..... if the starter isnt engaging at all could be the ignition wires also..... if the started clicks but wont engage try using a shim.