Fp Race manifold or sbr cast manifold?

[cmptrphreak]

Im going to be buying a fp green turbo but cant decide whichi manifold to get since the fp doesnt have a place for the wastegate. Also would it be better for me to get an external wastegate other than an internal one. This is going to be a daily driver. thanks guys

[dsm-onster]

Well, many have gotten good results w/ what a 50-trim can deliver w/ an internal gate. I'm running an internal gate on my 60-1 (like and FP Red). This is a daily driver.

[slugsgomoo]

externals are better, and you can run an FP Green with the manifold off the o2 housing, you just need the right o2 setup (not stock stuff). Running your wastegate off the #1 runner is not ideal.

I'd run a green with the gate off of the o2 with the FP manifold, unless the price is pretty close, and then i'd step up to the FP3052 in the same config.

[SBR Joe]

Not entirely. The point of a wastegate is to bypass exhaust gasses from spinning the turbine wheel, coming off one runner is doing exactly that and make no difference. We have done extensive boost testing with our manifolds and it holds boost perfectly..flat boost curve on the dyno graph. Heres a link to the graph. SBR Manifold w/ Tial 38mm Boost Graph

Joe
SBR

[GVR4592]

What is reversion?

[SBR Joe]

The act of turning something the reverse way.


Joe
SBR

[GVR4592]

I figured it would be over your head.

[SBR Joe]

HAHA...i figured you would respond in such a way. Sarcasm is the key word here. But anyways wiseman, stay on topic please.


Joe
SBR

[GVR4592]

I am on topic, I asked you what reversion was and you gave a smart ass reply. You either don't know or you're afraid of where this is going. Go look it up if you have to.

[SBR Joe]

Originally Posted by GVR4592

I am on topic, I asked you what reversion was and you gave a smart ass reply. You either don't know or you're afraid of where this is going. Go look it up if you have to.

Maybe you should be more specific with your question then, im not afraid of where this is going, nothing new on here. Enlighten me. And it wasnt a smart ass reply, its a defenition.


Joe
SBR

[GVR4592]

If you don't know what I'm talking about you're not qualified to be answering any questions regarding wastegate placement.

[SBR Joe]

Originally Posted by GVR4592

If you don't know what I'm talking about you're not qualified to be answering any questions regarding wastegate placement.

Then maybe you can share it with the class aye?? And i hope someone of such a qualified nature would not be implying that having the WG setup this way would in any way cause "flutter" resulting in the turbine wheel spinning backwards.... or lets say, the act of turning it the reverse way...



Joe
SBR

[SBR Chris]

Originally Posted by GVR4592

I am on topic, I asked you what reversion was and you gave a smart ass reply. You either don't know or you're afraid of where this is going. Go look it up if you have to.

Are you referrring to a reversion of the wheel, or are you talking about the exhaust gases going back through the intake valves when open and causing detonation?

I have yet to see the W/G Placement have any effect on knock.

Honestly, the pressure in the exhaust manifold will equal itself out over the 4 runners. Once the W/G opens, the pressure is going to be released, no matter what. In theory, the collector (or o2) mounted W/G would be the most efficient, but that's only in theory. In practice, the difference is negligable at best.

Chris

[GVR4592]

Are you mounting the wastegate on the intake manifold now?

[SBR Joe]

Originally Posted by GVR4592

Are you mounting the wastegate on the intake manifold now?

No you silly sally...your getting confused with the EGR valve...but back to where we left off....



Joe
SBR

[GVR4592]

Are you referrring to a reversion of the wheel, or are you talking about the exhaust gases going back through the intake valves when open and causing detonation?

So explain how reversion of the exhaust gas is going to travel back through the intake valves. But before you do that, go get the rest of your SBR buddies to back you up, you're going to need them.

[SBR Chris]

I'm just about to go home for the evening, but the reversion I understood you to speak of, had a lot to do with pressure backing up behind the turbine wheel, and going back into the cylinders once it passed the pressure of the exhaust. I've heard this can even make exhaust gases go back into the intake manifold, and can cause serious knock. Or, so I've heard.

Never seen it happen though.

Why do you have to take a somewhat intelligent post, and make some stupid comment about my buddies backing it up?

Chris

[thekellbeast]

Originally Posted by SBR Chris

I've heard this can even make exhaust gases go back into the intake manifold,

You mean like the reverse of a two stroke expansion chamber where the air and fuel mixtures goes into the exhaust, then is pushed back into the cylinder to be burned? Wierd.

Not to play devils advocate or anything, but didnt people run the wastegate off a single cylinder for the longest time? It may or may not be the optimal place, but that doesnt mean that the design is crap. Why were people drilling and welding flanges onto the runner of the stock manifold?

[blcknspo0ln]

*edit nevermind.

OP: If you are getting an internally gated FP Green, chances are you are not looking to boost over 25 psi, and therefore not looking to make insane amounts of power and run single digits in the 1/4. If that is the case, then a ported 2g manifold will do you just fine. If you are adamant about getting a new manifold, for the sake of getting a new manifold (and spending needless amounts of money, for bling), then do yourself a favor and read the (FP race manifold) thread and any associated threads about SBR's.

If you want my unbiased .02, SBR makes a great cast manifold that is the equivelant to an extremely hogged out 2g manifold with thicker walls after the fact. The FP race manifold is comparable to a tubular/case manifold hybrid. Theoretically the FP race manifold should decrease spoolup time, but that is yet to be documented.

IMHO, you are better off just spending your money elsewhere. Shit, if you need a ported 2g manifold, I have one sitting in my garage I can sell you.

Lastly, if you are planning to run over 25 psi, your best bet is the go external gate. TRUST ME, I'm in those shoes right now and wish I would have went external a long time ago.

[dsm-onster]

Originally Posted by blcknspo0ln

IMHO, you are better off just spending your money elsewhere. Shit, if you need a ported 2g manifold, I have one sitting in my garage I can sell you.

Amen! If your setup and goal can get away w/ an internal then you'll see more results from upgrading your o2 housing. . .

Internally gated 50-trims are the norm. And it doesn't seam that most are getting flow levels high enough to blow open a properly sized internal gate. It also doesn't seam that *most* are unable to control boost running internal gats w/ 50-trims.

Originally Posted by blcknspo0ln

If you want my unbiased .02, SBR makes a great cast manifold that is the equivelant to an extremely hogged out 2g manifold with thicker walls after the fact.

Kind of like a ported EVO3 exhaust manifold w/ perhaps a little more "meat" after the port? . . . Nothing against FP or SBR, but I'd get a tubular if I were after a higher level of performance from an exhaust manifold. Possible cracking is the price you pay for performance. To me, width isn't quite as important as length here (boy that could be taken the wrong way!). Equal length yields best results. Wider and wider yields diminishing returns where the turbo is a control. If a ported 2G manifold (or ev3 exhuast manifold) w/ it's particular diameter flows enough for X hp; then as long as you're under that hp, only controlling the length will do things like increase spool and flow (through scavenging).

But, for the sake of reliability AND having an external gate, they're an option to me for sure. But so is having an o2 mounted external gate. And w/ an o2 gate upgrade, you can get an o2 housing flow increase.

[blcknspo0ln]

well spoken.

On a different note, blowing open an internal gate sucks