Which brake kit is better? Wilwood or Baer

[jkimes]

I can get the Baer Big brake track kit w 13" one-piece rotors and 2 piston calipers for around $800 after shipping

http://www.hopupracing.com/bafrtrclbrsy2.html

However... I also found a Wilwood kit w 4 piston calipers and 12.2" two-piece rotors for about $835.

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Pages/05/index.asp

I have 19" wheels, so rotor size is not an issue. I'm just curious which brake kit offers the best performance. Does anyone here have experience w both kits?

 

[my98GST]

I've always been partial to Wilwood...........but if you can afford either, then neither can be bad!

 

[Irrational]

For a street car go with Bear. Wilwood's need to get rebuilt more. Wilwood's are dead sexy.

 

[daren_p]

They both have their benefits over each other. The Baer setup should be able to dissapate more heat as the larger rotor diameter, the rotor is thicker & I believe it also has direction internal vents. The wilwood setup will be a lighter rotor because of the smaller diameter & the aluminum hat. That kit comes with straight vents but you can upgrade to a heavier duty rotor with directional internal vents for abit extra (that is what I did). I would also imagine that the 4 piston wilwood caliper would offer better clamping force over the Baer, but have no proof either way. Both of these kits will offer more brake then you need on the streets & will make you happy with your purchase. I'm extremely happy with my setup & I like the fact that Wilwood offers a good selection of both street & race pads for this caliper & swapping the pads only takes maybe 5 mins with the removal of one pin on each side.

 

[daren_p]

For a street car go with Bear. Wilwood's need to get rebuilt more. Wilwood's are dead sexy.

Do you have any proof of this? Alot of the Wilwood calipers are unbooted which is usually more race directed but this perticular caliper comes fully booted from the factoy & as an option you can also get a SS unbooted version if you prefer. Talking to the dealer I bought my Wilwood kit from, who has sold a tonn of these for all different vehicles he has only seen a couple failers on the unbooted version & this was with year round use in snow & salt & after many years use.

 

[jkimes]

I think I'm leaning towards the Wilwood kit. Does anyone have any real world comparisons between these two? Stopping distance, fade improvement, durability etc? I'm really curious if the extra.8 inches of rotor diameter will make much of a difference. I would suspect that the 4 piston wilwood calipers would offer more clamping force than the baer kit, but on the other hand, the wilwood rotors are a little smaller than the Baer kit.

 

[Mitchel63]

Most of your braking power is going to come from your pad. The pad will make or break any brake system.

I just run a simple Powerslot setup with SS lines and Porterfield pads. Granted I don't do track days, but I have been VERY happy with it. I have never faded them. My buddy has a Wilwood setup from TCE. They are beautiful. They are light weight and work well. He does have some issues with a shudder under light braking. On mountain passes, he can brake later than me, but not by much. His brakes obviously outperform mine, but it is not a night and day difference like one might expect. I have read about some issues with the dust boots on the Wilwood calipers and them needing to be rebuilt because of it, but he has had no issues with that. I have also read about the Wilwood calipers flexing...

I really wouldn't waste your money on the Baer kit. I have no experience with it, but it is a 2 piston caliper just like stock. So you are basically paying for a larger rotor. The new Powerslot Plus rotors can be had for a lot less than a Baer kit....combined with OEM calipers, it seems to me that that would be a very similar setup.

Hope this helped a little!

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I really wouldn't waste your money on the Baer kit. I have no experience with it, but it is a 2 piston caliper just like stock. So you are basically paying for a larger rotor. The new Powerslot Plus rotors can be had for a lot less than a Baer kit....combined with OEM calipers, it seems to me that that would be a very similar setup.

You should have stopped at the part in bold because you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah they are 2 piston, two huge ass pistons. Rotors are huge 13" and the pads are 50% larger than stock. The track kit is from mustang cobras and C4 vettes, so you do the math. Powerslots are cheaper for a reason: same calipers and same pad size (i have powerslots in rear).

Now back to Baers...the problem is they are custom made for dsms and take a long ass time to get usually (6 weeks for me) becuase the brackets come from australia. Which can be a huge pain in the ass when they send you a slightly wrong caliper bracket size so your caliper contacts the rotor. I know someone else with the same kit...great brakes but because of the hassle, I'd go wilwood if I could do it again.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that Baer sent me the wrong rotor centering ring and that's why my kit wasn't fitting right. I have to say, Baer's customer service is excellent. They answer calls in seconds and really try to help you out...worked with me the whole afternoon looking and going over pics to diagnose the problem. Turned out the centering rings they were packing weren't manufactured to the correct spec. IF YOU ARE ORDERING BAER TRACK KIT, MAKE SURE YOU DONT HAVE THE RED CENTERING RINGS!

 

[twicks69]

Well, I have had two sets of Wilwood front brakes on my 2G for over 5 years now with excellent results.

I am running:

Directionally vaned 12.2"x0.81" two-piece rotor (See picture below) with aluminum hat, and safety-wired hardware; TCE Performance brackets, Wilwood rotor centering rings.

Wilwood Forged SuperLite 4-piston Calipers (See Picture below)
(here is an example for 1.25" wide rotors : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Wilw...egoryZ107061QQihZ001QQitemZ110112961637QQrdZ1, ) (here is an example for 0.81" rotors: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us )

Wilwood Race "D" Pads
"D" Compound (see table below)
PolyMatrix "D: has the highest cold friction value of all medium temperature race pads. Best suited for light to moderate braking dirt tracks, most types of drag racing and performance street category competition. Superb material on all cast iron and high strength steel rotors ultimately extending rotor life over other hard or abrasive brake pad compounds. A great AutoX pad due to its cold temperature application. D pads are used exclusively on the TCE Pikes Peak Hill Climb car.

Goodridge Stainless Steel Brake lines (f/r) from TCE Performance.


I purchased the original kit many years ago from Todd at TCE Performance Products:
http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/cgi-bin/brakes/cginews.pl?record=14

He is extremely helpful (and busy), and can answer the questions that you may have.

In the past I have used Wilwood Billet SuperLite 4's with Hawk Black pads and Wilwood J and BP-20 pads, along with Wilwood regular vented rotors and Wilwood directionally vaned vented rotors. The BSL's were very nice because it has a differential bore piston body. The downfall was that when the hardware got old, the caliper started creaking a little more -- caliper was fine, just needed hardware. Instead, I upgraded to a new set of Forged Superlites and they are very nice.

If I did it all over again, I would purchase the caliper brackets from Todd @ TCE, pick up a set of FSL calipers, and a set of 12.2"x0.81" 2-piece scalloped/vented Wilwood rotors (pictured below) with safety-wire hardware, and a set of Wilwood "D" Pads with stainless lines (see table below). That is my ideal front brake setup.


FYI --

The wilwood dynalite and billet Superlite calipers are the lightest ones they offer. The Scalloped rotors are approximately 5 lbs a piece vs. the 8.5 lbs of the standard directionally vaned rotors.


If you want replacement part numbers to order all of these things separately, please PM me and I will give you them. You need to purchase the brackets because they are only offered by TCE -- I would rather you went through Todd since he is an Excellent vendor and buy the kit from him.

If I ever need replacement parts, he gives me discounted pricing because I already own a kit from him -- he always has the stuff in stock, and he is a quick shipper.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

make sure you get some good fluid too. Motul 600 is great stuff and will pretty much never boil over.

 

[housegsx]

I have the Baer Track kit and love it. They are a 2 piston floating setup, but they are aluminum and designed very well. My pads wear perfectly even and that to me makes it as good as a fixed caliper setup. Plus you get the rotors in 13 inch and 1.1 thick. How thick are those wilwoods? I've had them for almost 3 years with no problems and there are tons of pad choices out their since you just buy Corvette or Mustang Cobra pads.

 

[twicks69]

Plus you get the rotors in 13 inch and 1.1 thick. How thick are those wilwoods?

Well, you can get brakes for the DSM with the wilwood rotors anywhere from 11.75" to 15.00", with rotor thicknesses from 0.750", 0.810", 1.10", 1.25" and 1.375".

These are the front brake kits that Todd @ TCE sells directly:
2G
Street Sport Front 12.2 x .81 with FSL caliper. $1295
Street Sport Front 13.0 x .81 with FSL caliper. $1295
Road Race Front 12.2 x 1.10 with FSL caliper. $1395
Road Race Front 13.0 x 1.10 with FSL caliper. $1395
HD Race Front 13.0 x 1.25 with FSL caliper. $1450

1G
Street Sport Front 12.2 x .81 with FSL caliper. $1295
Street Sport Front 13.0 x .81 with FSL caliper. $1295
Road Race Front 12.2 x 1.10 with FSL caliper. $1395
Road Race Front 13.0 x 1.10 with FSL caliper. $1395


I went with the 12.2"x0.81" because I am only drag racing, and wanted the lightest possible setup. They are more than plenty for street/strip.

If I was at Road America with a race setup, I would go with 14"x1.25" and Wilwood BSL6 calipers.

 

[ceedawg]

EDIT: Just wanted to add that Baer sent me the wrong rotor centering ring and that's why my kit wasn't fitting right. I have to say, Baer's customer service is excellent. They answer calls in seconds and really try to help you out...worked with me the whole afternoon looking and going over pics to diagnose the problem. Turned out the centering rings they were packing weren't manufactured to the correct spec. IF YOU ARE ORDERING BAER TRACK KIT, MAKE SURE YOU DONT HAVE THE RED CENTERING RINGS!

yep went thru the same thing and they had to send me another ring. They said they had some info cofused or something with the 2g setup. However I installed the right rings,have ran the seup for 3 yrs and I love it.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

yep went thru the same thing and they had to send me another ring. They said they had some info cofused or something with the 2g setup. However I installed the right rings,have ran the seup for 3 yrs and I love it.

Did your rotor center between the caliper frame bracket well? Mine was contacting the rotor on the outside during turns. I had to put washers on the backs of the frame bracket bolts to center it over the rotor. Now the brake kit works great. Guess every car is a bit different.

 

[Weapon-X]

Hey guys, Spoke with Butch at Baer Brake Systems tech dept. I questioned him on the ring colors and he told me that the Red rings are the right ones for the 2g kits.

I called cause I have a brand new un-installed kit that has the red rings and wanted to make sure things were right after reading this post.

So whos right here?

Are the red rings the right ones or the wrong ones?

If the red rings are the wrong ones, whats is the right color?

And exactly what was the problem with the red rings?

Incorrectly sized?

Thanks.

 

[GVR4592]

http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/

I'd get a hold of Todd at TCE, you won't be disappointed.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

I would kock slap Butch. I have the Baer Kit and it fit perfectly, it had a silver color rings with it. The Red rings are wrong as Rice told you.

 

[Weapon-X]

I would kock slap Butch. I have the Baer Kit and it fit perfectly, it had a silver color rings with it. The Red rings are wrong as Rice told you.

Thanks.......... Guess I'll be back on the phone here in a few minutes to chew somebody's ass out. WTF !

The whole purpose of my call to them was to get the storey straight with the which rings are right and I still get dicked around.

Anyway....... Thanks, now I can call them and leave them know which ones are the correct ones..................

 

[housegsx]

Maybe they've changed something at one point because I will say with 99% certainty that my centering rings are the red ones.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Thanks.......... Guess I'll be back on the phone here in a few minutes to chew somebody's ass out. WTF !

The whole purpose of my call to them was to get the storey straight with the which rings are right and I still get dicked around.

Anyway....... Thanks, now I can call them and leave them know which ones are the correct ones..................

Ok first of all, when you call Baer ask for Rick E. He knows his shit.

It's easy to see whether your ring is the correct one. First use a wire brush and make sure you brush off any rust deposits on the hub. Now put on the centering ring...it should be tight but still go on with light taps of a hammer and screwdriver. Now slide on the rotor. It should fit LIKE A GLOVE over the centering ring. If the ring is the wrong one you will know it. I had to machine them with a pneumatic dremel to get them to fit using a mallet -- and it still didnt work for me. The correct rings need zero modification and fit like a glove in the rotor. Run some lug nuts down on the rotor to make sure it fits snug and flush with the hub.

Silver rings are correct, the current batch of reds are wrong and Rick said they had to get a whole new batch fabbed.

 

[SFRacingGST]

I have the Baer's and my ring is red. I have had them for 2 years and love them. Stop on a dime, and those rotors cut the pad's very evenly.

 

[SFRacingGST]

Here is a pic of my red spacer

 

[Savage Talon]

My 1G has red rings, I got my kit in 4 days and it all went on with no problems at all.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

I think there current batch of Red rings was manufatured out of spec, so a older kit and you are good. If you got your kit recently and you got red rings you may want to check it out. Thats what I understood from talking to Rice about it. Rice definitly knows whats up with this as he has been up down back and forth with this recently.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Exactly...Baer's most recent batch of red spacers was manufactured .017" out of spec. That's actually a lot for a spacer.

Rick told me they manufacture their spacers in house and would have to get a whole new batch fabbed. According to him, that isn't a simple process and takes time. I was lucky they had a pair of the silver rings left or I'd be screwed still.