To SMIM or not to SMIM

[sbcxtreme]

Im really tempted to order a 2g mani from JMF, but i dont want to spend the $450 and only pick up 20whp.

My setup:
BC 280s, PTE scm6152s, SBR exhaust mani, 3" turbo back(no cat or muffler), 2g head ported and polished. I am planning on running 30psi or more if i can get away with it.(94octane, meth injection)

Any idea what gains i could see out of this? I know every car will be different, i just dont know if it is worth it.

Thanks for looking.
Doug

 

[beccari56]

I also was considering a SMIM until I ran across a site (can't remember which, I'll try to find it) that tested a series af aftermarket ones , the usual culprits, along with a stock one for comparison. The conclusion was that the stock one was actually better than most at lower rpms and was only slightly beat at higher rpms by one, but only by single digits. That was an eye-opener. If you are going to spend that much, it would be better to spend a little more and switch to a 1g head and manifold. That will get you a substantial increase in flow over the 2G, depending on how well your was ported. Maybe someone else will know where that comparison was done.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

Considering you have BC 280's a SMIM is going to help you alot... IMO Cams and a SMIM should be done at the same time. I have a friend that has a More extreem setup then yours... Stage 3 Bushar block, stage 3 bushar head, Master Power t70 + all the other stuff you need. He also has BC 280's... when he added just a Magnus the HP est. on DSMLink went up 80 HP. I am not saying a SMIM is going to net you 80hp... but on his setup the is a huge restriction point... Why have the big cams (you have 280's) when you stock intake manifold dosent flow well up there.

Upgrade, you will be happy.

 

[CanadianTSi]

At 30psi a SMIM will pick up atleast 30WHP

i dont want to spend the $450 and only pick up 20whp.

Most car guys would kill for 20whp for only 450 bucks...

 

[topnotchgsx]

Most car guys would kill for 20whp for only 450 bucks...

Thats what I was thinking.

 

[sbcxtreme]

im a tight ass. i guess i will go ahead and order the thing and see what happens. this will be replacing a bone stock unported 2g mani/tb. hopefull i notice a difference

 

[11secDSM]

I assume you bought the BC 280s because you wanted more high end power...the SMIM will compliment that VERY well. The JMF SMIM is a great choice...i'd definitely get it. I've had one on every DSMs i've owned since they (JMF manifold) came out 3 years ago.

 

[danyz250f]

Evil eagle told me get gained about 55whp. Going to his jmf smim. He also runs 9's

its all in tuning.

 

[90blacktsiawd]

Most car guys would kill for 20whp for only 450 bucks...

I third this statement. Especially once you get past your basic bolt ons.


Chris i didn't know you frequented over here as well. Too much free time on your hands now that it isn't 2 hours each way to work?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I'm waiting for the cast Hawver intake manifold for the 7 bolt head. And as for stock intake manifold being as good at low rpms, even if that is true, then why would you get 280s in the first place if stock cams are plenty good on the low end? The whole point is to bring the power to top end. Seems a no brainer to me that intake manifold is another step in the "must have" upgrades list after cams. I'm certainly doing that before I do my exhaust manifold. 30whp is great for a few bills!

 

[dsm dork]

Why does it seem everyone wants to go to bigger cams and an aftermarket intake manifold when 9 times out of 10 they have not even gotten close to reaching the limits of stock?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Because it's easier to reach higher numbers with the right upgrades in place. People have hit 12s on T25 and 14b turbos, so why upgrade at all then, by your logic? The only reason anyone wouldn't want all the supporting mods in place for big power is if they can't afford it.

 

[dsm dork]

Because it's easier to reach higher numbers with the right upgrades in place. People have hit 12s on T25 and 14b turbos, so why upgrade at all then, by your logic? The only reason anyone wouldn't want all the supporting mods in place for big power is if they can't afford it.

No that's not my logic. Taking something to the extreme is not using it's full potential. I see people upgrading to SMIM's and cams when they aren't even to 110-115mph traps. Why not use the money to put their current setup to their actual potential then just throwing money and parts at it to try to make it go faster. That's why alot of setups never reach their potential in the first place. People throw a bunch of parts at them to try to go fast instead of using what they have to start with and maximizing it. Using a car that weighs 2200lbs or spraying a 220 shot is not maximizing a setup, it's going to the extreme, which is what you need to do when racing.

You think if your current setup is not tuned properly and maximized for what you have when you upgrade something that you will be able to maximize that setup? That's why some people run low 11s with stock cams/intake manifold and some people run low 12s with 280 cams and a smim with the same turbo/intercooler/tuning setups. It happens all the time.

You think shep, buschur, ams, magnus, etc.. all got where they are by not maximizing their current setups and then upgrading and adjusting?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

You think 99% of the people on this forum are vendors, sponsored professionals, or have access to all the resources of a tuning shop? Then how are you going to compare the average tuner to shep or buschur?

If you want to crawl through the window instead of going through the front door, have at it. I much prefer making my target power range with less effort. And don't forget, some of us don't care a bit about 1/4 drag times. Some are interested in autoX, others top end, etc. We all have diff goals.

 

[dsm dork]

You think buschur and shep had what they have now their whole automotive life? No. That's my point. If you maximize what you have and not spend money throwing parts at it hoping to go a little faster you'll end up more places.

Any racer no matter what kind of racing will tell you to max out what you have and then go from there. That's why their are always people going faster and making more with less then others. Theirs the people who max what they got and others that max out their credit cards trying to get there.

If you believe it's easier to get to a certain goal by just throwing more parts into the car instead of maximizing what you have you have not been far in the racing world. So feel free to throw parts at cars in hopes to go faster while others out there are making more power, turning faster times with less and you keep wondering why.

That's why people like Tom noonen went low 11s on a full interior street car with a 16g. You didn't see a SMIM on the car did you?

You can't get the max performance out of aftermarket/upgraded parts before you max out what you already have. Otherwise you're wasting your money and you'll never see the full potential of any parts on your car.

In the end it's all YMMV, see you at the tracks.

 

[wvturbo2]

If you get a killer deal on something then why not jumpo on it. How many people do you think buy setups bigger than what they are running because they got a deal on it and later they will need it. It's like your example with the 280's maybe i got them off a friend dirt cheap and yea there is no way in hell I can use them now, but whenever I finish the rest of what I plan on doing their perfect. Also I don't know about you, but most people don't want to run their car to the "extreme" or to the max, because that same car is our daily driver and we don't want it to break. I'd rather run a turbo at lower boost than max boost and have something fail or a worn out turbo after a short time.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Im really tempted to order a 2g mani from JMF, but i dont want to spend the $450 and only pick up 20whp.

2g head ported and polished.

Define ported and polished. Are the runners still 2G sized (I'm assuming so since you're still on a 2G intake)? If so, you'd be spending your money more wisely doing a 1G head swap.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

You think buschur and shep had what they have now their whole automotive life? No. That's my point. If you maximize what you have and not spend money throwing parts at it hoping to go a little faster you'll end up more places.

Actually you end up more places by not spending any $ trying to make a 210 bhp car be fast and instead invest that money on a car that is already fast off the lot. Less time breaking things and paying to fix them. But wait, we're not talking about lifetime achievements nor fiscal sensibility here, we're talking about a HOBBY.

You fail to grasp the difference between pros and every day people who just mod and tune for a hobby. And like any hobby, goals and how to get there are relative to what each owner considers fun and money well spent. No one decides what those priorities are, not you, not anyone else.

Any racer no matter what kind of racing will tell you to max out what you have and then go from there. That's why their are always people going faster and making more with less then others. Theirs the people who max what they got and others that max out their credit cards trying to get there.

We're all "racers"? So you are sponsored? People who advocate making more with less are typically the kind of people who live paycheck to paycheck and practice poor financial management.

If you believe it's easier to get to a certain goal by just throwing more parts into the car instead of maximizing what you have you have not been far in the racing world. So feel free to throw parts at cars in hopes to go faster while others out there are making more power, turning faster times with less and you keep wondering why.

Wow, you're soooo right. I'm still wondering how I gained 100 whp just by switching to a bigger turbo! And the day you accomplish anything of repute like your gods shep and buschur, you can lecture me on the "racing world".

That's why people like Tom noonen went low 11s on a full interior street car with a 16g. You didn't see a SMIM on the car did you?

Therefore you should never upgrade anything beyond a 16g and minimal bolt on's until you see 11s.

You can't get the max performance out of aftermarket/upgraded parts before you max out what you already have. Otherwise you're wasting your money and you'll never see the full potential of any parts on your car.

When you start earning my money for me, you can then give me financial advice, thanks.

 

[oldman]

Stay on topic guys, take your off topic discussions to pm.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

To the OP: Like I said before, the 280's are a top end cam and the stock intake manifold is going to be a huge restriction up top. The BC 280's (I run them BTW) like to live above 8K. To use what you have you need to upgrade to a SMIM. The other problem with your setup is the SCM6152. In a high revving application that tiny little bolt on hot side is going to become a huge restriction. I had experienced this same problem with my BC 280's, Magnus and my SCM5031e. Airflow peaked around 7200 and held solid all the way to 8500, no gains. Now that I have switched to a SC6152, T3 .82 hot side the airflow continues to increase. IE: 8000 to 8500 rpms I keep gaining airflow (lbs/min). If you are devoted to a high revving setup that make power above 8000 rpms you need to get a minimum of a SMIM and in the future consider switching to a T3 turbo with a large backside. If that is not the route you want to go you should sell the BC 280's and get something more suitable to your application. Right now you are probably losing power with the 280's shifting below 8K.

I agree with Kevin.

 

[sbcxtreme]

My JMF mani is being shipped monday morning. I have been thinking about going with a t4 hotside after reading a thread here on tuners.

And to the guy who doesnt understand why people upgrade w/o maxing their setups, im piecing everything together so that i dont have to go have it dyno tuned repeatedly. I dont care if i am at full potential for my setup until i get everything for it. Sorry i would rather put parts on as i get them rather than let them sit in a box.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

SBC, I agree with you. I belive that would be considered "the bigger picture". FYI a T3 .82 flow very well. A little laggy but it does the job when it spools up.
Please keep us updated on the JMF, post back with to this thread after you install it with you first impesion, gains, etc...