making big power on a dsm?

[compression]

I was just thinking about a few things trying to find some things i could fabricate myself to make a little extra horsepower and i started thinking how do you make big power on a dsm , is it simply get as much cold air to the cylinder head as fast as possible? ( big turbo big intercooler) and the fuel to match it? ( big fuel pump, larger fuel lines ,high flow fuel filter) then i was thinking since a cooler air charge gives you more horsepower wont a cooler fuel system? what i was thinking was having -08 fuel lines from tank to filter then from filter to a cooling box , i dont know if anybody has ever thought of this , i did search and found nothing, now this cooling box i was thinking about just having a few feet of stainless steel braided line coiled in this sealed box and simply put some really cold ice water or something to cool the fuel down woudlnt a cold mist of fuel cool the combustion chamber down? or would the fuel not ignite like it should? i was simply thinking along the lines of methanol or alcohol injection and their cooling charactoristics. i could easily fabricate a box with about 5 feet of stainless steel line connectoed to fittings to the outside of the box and have a lid on it. would there be any disadvatages to having a few extra feet of fuel line? theres just a few things on my mind , im just trying to get more power out of my car on the stock internals and the turbo im running. in order to make more power i should be able to just upgrade the fuel lines and fuel injectors , get a good tune and crank up the boost right? as long as i have enough fuel to compensate for boost and i keep the air charge relativly cool i could just keep turning the boost up right ? ( of course data logging the whole time, watching for knock and keeping the timing in check.

so , alot of cold air and the fuel to match it without detonation or preignition. (i.e. a good tune)
but what about cold fuel? and ignition i have seen some great times on stock coil pack setups.

sorry if it seems like im rambling just trying to come up with an idea so i know where my money should go to yield the best results.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I can't imagine colder fuel will have anything to do with more ignition and/or possibly more power. If there is, it's probably negligible. I think you've been here long enough to know that DSMs have been explored and rexplored 100x over. Go with what's tried and true

As far as getting something that will help knock, it seems that the home depot CAI works VERY well. People have reported losing 2-3* of knock on DSMLink just by switching to the CAI and losing 40*F of intake temps!

That'll be my next mod

 

[ThingyNess]

Cooling the fuel isn't going to make any difference. Some people might even argue that warmer fuel atomizes easier and is less likely to puddle, although on a modern port-injection engine such as the 4g63t, this is unlikely anyway.

I'm not a big fan of upgrading the lines or anything either, unless you're running a ridiculous rising rate fuel pressure regulator and the stock lines are in danger of rupturing or leaking. If you're going fast enough to need a -8an line from the tank, you probably have already realized this and upgraded it. Plenty of people have run 400whp, 500whp, and probably higher on the stock fuel lines. Puts a little more strain on the pump, of course, but adding another walbro inline or in parallel isn't particularly expensive or difficult.

You are thinking along the correct lines, though. To go fast, you do need a lot of air forced down the engine's throat, and the fuel to match. Try not to overthink things too much at this stage. Get yourself some bigger injectors, and preferably, spend the money now on something *good* to control them. Nobody will EVER tell you that something like DSMlink and a set of 880cc injectors is a bad first mod to make. Do it once, and do it right, as far as I'm concerned. That, along with a properly wired Walbro 255hp or other large fuel pump is, in and of itself, enough fuel to run 10s, so long as the rest of your car is up to the challenge.

The stock ignition system is quite good, and many people have made lots and lots of power on the stock coil packs / ignitor. I wouldn't start worrying about it until the 400+whp range.

In my opinion, first things you should do is get yourself a nice exhaust and better fueling (such as the DSMLink/880cc/Walbro255HP combo I mentioned. The fuel system in and of itself will run you about $1000, but it's something you likely won't need to throw away and upgrade later on, and it will grow with you as your turbo gets bigger and your needs change.

And, as mentioned, a freer flowing exhaust *always* helps, and in ways some people don't pay attention to. The less back pressure in the exhaust equates to less back pressure in the exhaust manifold and at the exhaust ports, which raises your engine's volumetric efficiency *and* makes it less likely to knock. It's one of those great win/win situations, so long as you can stand the noise and manage to conform with your local emissions laws.

 

[compression]

i think i will try the cooling box thing, with and without it simply do a pull with it and do a pull with it bypassed and then compare the differences. i know what mods are good for the most part but i just havent seen anybody talk about colder fuel., and i didnt mean colder fuel would have anything to do with ignition i was just simply asking if it would be more effiecient and increase horsepower.

 

[1gcrazy]

How about running the fuel through an oil cooler? It makes sense, as the cold fuel atomizes it cools the air around it....Kind of like the effect water cooling has....
Ice cubes in a water cooler decreases knock, why can't fuel?

 

[compression]

well i do have 3" turbo back exhaust , and the 3 " od house with atmospheric dump, as for tuning i have maft, afc, and a chipped eprom ecu. with fic 650cc injectors and the evo 8 fuel pump rewired and i was reading an article on v faq where the measure the stock fuel lines to flow 1.9 lpm at 60 psi and at 75 psi it still only flowed 2.0 lpm, and after upgrading to -06 it flowed 10 lpm! at 60 psi. i think with that mod my 650's should be more effiecient right?

here is the link to the fuel line upgrade : http://stevetek.com/R-FuelSys.html

 

[compression]

or would the cold fuel not atomize correctly?

 

[Street Surgeon]

My father told me old hotrod guys used to use that trick and coiled up the fuel line in a coffee can and filled it with dry ice. Whether it did anything or not is another story.

 

[eclipsh]

You're taking chances on this but here are some considerations:

1. Cold WATER can absorb more oxygen. I don't know how this chemical reaction applies to gasoline, or if it does at all

2. Gasoline has to evaporate and become vapor to burn. The colder it is the longer it takes to evaporate. While under boost intake temps are probably plenty high enough to overcome this but when boost is off you may suffer big power loss. The evaporation may also negate any effects #1 might have.

Another good chunk of reading for you. Makes it sound like power LOSS would be the inevitable outcome.

 

[compression]

My father told me old hotrod guys used to use that trick and coiled up the fuel line in a coffee can and filled it with dry ice. Whether it did anything or not is another story.

ive heard people talk about that before on old hot rods as well.

 

[csgsx23]

I say try it if you are willing and see if its worth it.