How can I make my T3/T4 spool faster???

[Gregs99eclipse]

I currently have the Turbonetics T3/T4. This turbo spools a bit slow for my style. I'm looking for ideas on how to make the turbo spool faster. I have the .63 Standard Turbine Housing. I was thinking about swaping it for the .48 Turbine Housing hoping for faster spool up. Has anyone done this or know of anyone that has and had good results??

 

[RaysTsi]

Or you could try some N20, the t3 is just a slow spooling turbo deal.

You could try getting a dejontool intake they increase airflow 85% over stock. Also a 3" dp with test pipe and a 3" exhaust would help. But for fast power you should try the N20.

 

[Black95GSX]

First off befoe swapping housings... what wheels do you have, which trims.... which housings (E/B/???)


How slow is the spool? what exactly are you seeing full boost at? what are you looking to have full boost by? What kind of exhaust manifold config are you running.... what kinda exhaust do you have? 2.5/3 ? press/mandrel?

All these items control lag.

 

[nine5raptor]

are you trying to get a lower boost threshhold or less lag or both?

 

[13secGST]

What trim do you have? And yeh N2O should spead things up pretty quick. Other than that...well the T3/T4 is a relatively big turbo and boost is going to be noticably slower than stock, but power output will be greater. It's just a price you pay for power. And if your thinking of swaping stuff to change lag...you should see if there is a way to add in those ball-bearings cause they will decrease your lag a lot as well, I don't know if that can be done though...I also don't know that it can't no1 has ever informed me.

 

[Gregs99eclipse]

Here's my situation. My car is a "GS" with the 420A motor. However the block is fully built and the car is of course turbo'd now. I'm not sure exactly sure which t3t4 it is. The tag was not on the turbo when it came with the kit . How can I tell what compressor housing and wheel that I have?? (is there any visual difference between the T04E and T04B?) How about my turbine wheel.....The trim is either a Standard, Stage II, Stage III wheel...how do I know which?? I know my Turbine Housing A/R is a .63 but I don't know if the trim is Standard, Stage II, or Stage III. I'm sure I'm gonna need to remove the turbo from the car and bust our the measureing ruler. Help! Also as farr as my exhaust well I have a 2.5" Mandrel bent down pipe into a 2.5" race pipe (no cat) and a 3" Thermal Mandrel cat back system. I reach 15psi at right around 4,200rpms. Any further questions are welcome

 

[LaserRST]

There is a difference between T04E and T04B, T04E is designed for large displacement engines and their trims are measured differently. This is kinda in relation to their "T" series. A stage II and stage III trim wll actually have less turbine fins and a taller turbine... how many each has you will have to do some research and as on lately I havent found anywhere that actually describes the differences but there is a site that has their measurements, inducer size vs exducer etc. If you are after power get NO2 on there. Do not change the turbine housing because this will choke your turbo and create back pressure. You might want to consider selling the turbo and getting a 16g if you are wanting to run lower boost pressures with quickerspool up. A hybrid turbo will have more peak power. What is your HP goal and take that into consideration when building your engine.

 

[got traction?]

O2 dump, maybe a 4'nch intake pipe.

 

[DSMTurbos]

upgrade from a 2.5 exhuast to t 3" maybe

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Gregs99eclipse
I'm sure I'm gonna need to remove the turbo from the car and bust our the measureing ruler.

Until you do that we wont be able to give you the BEST answer. The lag could really be in your turbo’s trim combination. You also don’t have your EMS system listed anywhere. If you have a good control of timing and your a/f ratio you should be able to get your turbo to spool faster. Also you should pressure test your setup to make sure you don’t have any boost leaks. What type of IC are you running? The type of piping and size of your IC core will also have an effect on things. How about cams, compression etc. You need to give us info otherwise we are just shooting in the dark trying to help you.

 

[GRNDSM]

Originally posted by Gregs99eclipse
The trim is either a Standard, Stage II, Stage III wheel...how do I know which?? I know my Turbine Housing A/R is a .63 but I don't know if the trim is Standard, Stage II, or Stage III.

You probably have stage 3, as that is the most popular for our application.

I reach 15psi at right around 4,200rpms. Any further questions are welcome

That is NOT BAD!!! I had 60-1 with Stage 5 (way too big) and I did not see 15psi until around 5200rpms!

I am not sure what level of performance you are going for, but if you want 400+ hp, that spool-up is not unreasonable.

Leon
RR

 

[Larry1.8TTU]

So what trim T3/T4 would you recommend for someone looking to run about 280hp smoothly?

 

[GRNDSM]

I would recommend a 14b for up to 300hp... Even T25 could get you around 250hp...

Leon
RR

 

[KGB Pilot125]

send it off and have it upgraded to dual ball bearings, also what boost controller are you using? you readjust the ramp setting on that so the wastegate doesnt open till the last possible 1/10 of a second. also like mentioned above if you have the EMS then you can also use that to help the spool time with timing timing and if you wanted to get crazy you could also use the stutterbox.

What about those turbo insulation kits that wrap you turbo? anybody think those work? (supposed to keep the heat in reducing lag and such.)

 

[JayHass]

I"m assuming you are on stock compression with the 420A. 4200rpm with a 360* sleeve bearing sounds like a Stage-III 76 trim turbine wheel in .63 a/r housing and a larger compressor...say over 50trim.

I ran a .82 a/r stage III turbine section with a 50 trim To4E with a BB center section and was at full boost (20+psi) by 4200rpm at full load on the dyno. The BB is good for about 500rpm with the spool or a +1 increase in housing A/R with these T3/T4 hybrids designed for 350-450hp in my experience.

One thing you should defintley check is your wastegate and TB. Make sure the wastegate is fully closed and not blowing open early, and that you have WOT with the pedal to the floor. Sounds simple but you would be surprised how many times those two things are not right.

 

[KGB Pilot125]

Originally posted by JayHass
and that you have WOT with the pedal to the floor. Sounds simple but you would be surprised how many times those two things are not right.

would be suprised how many times in even in shifter karts this is the case seems everybody always over looks the simple stuff.

 

[Nappy94]

Up your compression ratio.

 

[DCJ98GST]

Does anybody have experience with a T3/T4e 50 trim and stage II turbine on a .48 A/R Full Garrett, in regards to spool, hp, and surging?

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by DCJ98GST
Does anybody have experience with a T3/T4e 50 trim and stage II turbine on a .48 A/R Full Garrett, in regards to spool, hp, and surging?

Yes, and the exhaust side is WAY to small. The turbo is way out of balance and you will be into a negative deltaP much too soon. (More pressure in the exhaust manifold than the intake manifold)

The turbo will also spike really hard coming on boost. It's just a wrong combination.

If you HAVE to put the smaller wheel in, at least use the .63 A/R housing.

 

[DCJ98GST]

If I am trying to help spool on that set up would you recommend going with

1. .48 housing with stage 3 wheel or
2. .63 housing with stage 2 wheel?

What would I expect from both.

Thanks

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by DCJ98GST
If I am trying to help spool on that set up would you recommend going with

1. .48 housing with stage 3 wheel or
2. .63 housing with stage 2 wheel?

What would I expect from both.

Thanks

# 2

The .48 housing according to my friend Rob Cadle who is a Garrett Engineer is really too small for any hybrid compressor application. After being in several .48 A/R equiped cars I have to agree. It causes boost spikes and a turbo that is really "peaky" with no top end.

[Edit] Oh and what you could expect from #2 vs #1 is that the boost will come on smoother and more gradual instead of the feeling you got rear ended by a garbage truck and then the car falls on it's face.

 

[99 gst 420a dsm]

get a turbo header and a port and polish, maybe a bigger exhaust and higher flow intake system, of just get a TO4E

 

[DCJ98GST]

Originally posted by JayHass


# 2

The .48 housing according to my friend Rob Cadle who is a Garrett Engineer is really too small for any hybrid compressor application. After being in several .48 A/R equiped cars I have to agree. It causes boost spikes and a turbo that is really "peaky" with no top end.

[Edit] Oh and what you could expect from #2 vs #1 is that the boost will come on smoother and more gradual instead of the feeling you got rear ended by a garbage truck and then the car falls on it's face.

Thanks,

Which would have better throttle response and spool up? I have an A/T and am concerned about building boost on the line.

One thing that I dont understand is why do the larger turbine wheels have worse spool up response. When the air hits the outside of the wheel it has more leverage with the larger wheels. Which I think would couterbalance the extra inertia required to turn the larger wheel.

Also, I have read that the garrett turbine wheels will not only flow more than the mitsu. wheels but will have better response because they have less blades and a better pitch.

I was originally looking at the 20G but since the 50 trim is only slightly larger, and with the better responding garrett wheels, maybe if I went full garrett it would have similar response as a 20G? Is that a reasonable assumption?

 

[99 gst 420a dsm]

im a die hard garrett fan, borg warner (IHI) makes an ok turbo, they are base, my brother has one on his mazda MX-6 GT and it pics up boost at like 2200rpms, but is like a 12 psi max, the porsche KKK turbos are probable the best i have ever encountered. external waistgates are the way for spool up time