trying something new, whats wide band O2?

[talondude4]

I recently just bought my 95 mitsubishi eclipse gs-t, and I have read that all 95's came with e-prom ecu. Now my question is do you have to have a wide band O2 when you get a afc controller? Also what does a wide band do? Can it be used without the afc controler? I plan on running dsm link real soon here. Here is what my gaol is, I plan on getting a FP Red turbo, the fuel mod kit from extremepsi, and then all my tuning stuff like logger etc.....


Any suggestions to help me meet this goal are welcome.

 

[daren_p]

This might get locked as these are questions that have been answered alot before if you do a search but I'll give you some info. It has been said that all 95's might not have an eprom ecu, to check pull out the ecu (takes like 10 min) look for an E in the lower right corner of the part number label, that means its an eprom unit. If you want to be 100% sure pop off the cover, with all the wiring harnesses at the top look on the lower right corner of the board there should be a chip about 3/4" by 1.5" long, thats the eprom chip. No you don't have to have a wideband to use your afc, its the best method to tune with but isn't necessary. Without the wideband you would look for timing being pulled with a logger or knock with dsmlink to tune with. A wideband tells your precisely what you air/fuel ratio is. Yes a wideband can be used without an afc but it will only tell you what your air/fuel ratio is, without the afc you have no way of adjusting you air/fuel ratio. You don't want to just slap on a red turbo as that is a rather larger turbo and needs alot of supporting mods to do so, unless you haven't updated your profile you are a long way away from running one of these.

Some things that you will need:
front mount intercooler
blow off valve
intake
complete turbo back exhaust
boost gauge/boost controller
fuel upgrade: pump, injectors, maybe fuel pressure regulator depending on what pump
dsmlink to control/log
wideband, not necessary but good idea
Probably also want to add an aftermarket clutch as the power you can make with a red will make short use of the stock one
Being fwd and making that kind of power you will also have to upgrade your suspension, springs, shocks, urthane motor mounts to help prevent wheel hop. Tracking will be a big issue so you'll want to throw an LSD in there as well.

Thats just a quick list off the top of my head.

 

[spoolup]

If you have a 95 it should have eprom, but dont just assume it, pull the ECU and compare it to DSMlink.com's pictures. (IE a little E in the corner). And if you do indeed have a eprom I would run DSMlink over the SAFC and logger anyday of the week. See my thread here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211702 post #5

The wideband is not required but nice to have as being more accurate. The stock 02 sensor runs from 0-1V where as the wideband runs from 0-5V thus more resolution. And in my post I linked above, with DSMlink you can log via one of the selectable inputs of the ECU the wideband to make it even more usefull.

 

[andymoraitis]

Wideband O2's use a third O2 sensor welded into a new bung on the downpipe. These will show you your air/fuel ratio and will give you an indication of whether you're running rich or lean and which direction to tune. A wideband can be used without the AFC, but you'll still need something to control the larger injectors you'll be running with your Red. Since you plan on adding DSM Link, that's all you'll need to tune, but a wideband will be an excellent compliment to the Link in giving you a full pitcure of what's going on under boost.

FYI, not all 95's came with an EPROM ECU. You'll need to verify this by pulling the ECU from under the center console and making sure that it has an "E" on the end of the part number. Alternatively, you can also open the case (make sure all of the harness wires are disconnected first) and look on the bottom right of the board (picture attached).

Hope that helps,

Andy

 

[airmail96]

Wideband O2's use a third O2 sensor welded into a new bung on the downpipe. These will show you your air/fuel ratio and will give you an indication of whether you're running rich or lean and which direction to tune. A wideband can be used without the AFC, but you'll still need something to control the larger injectors you'll be running with your Red. Since you plan on adding DSM Link, that's all you'll need to tune, but a wideband will be an excellent compliment to the Link in giving you a full pitcure of what's going on under boost.

Andy

Thats no entirely true. I know there are some wide band O2's that send out 2 signals. One signal that is narrow band and can be read by the stock ecu and another that is wideband that can be read by somthing that cna read wide band signals. Basically allowing you to use it in place of your stock o2.

 

[kanderson111]

I beleive Andy was giving him a general picture of wideband. Yes there are wideband sensors that will act as a narrow band and a wideband. But wide band sensors don't like to operate that well when they get really hot, this will happen with alot more frequency with the sensor located in the stock o2 housing. If someone is going to invest in wideband it is worth it to go with the seperate sensor. Plus it doesn't cost that much to have the bung welded into your exhaust system, I think my muffler shop charged me about $14.50.

 

[daren_p]

I beleive Andy was giving him a general picture of wideband. Yes there are wideband sensors that will act as a narrow band and a wideband. But wide band sensors don't like to operate that well when they get really hot, this will happen with alot more frequency with the sensor located in the stock o2 housing. If someone is going to invest in wideband it is worth it to go with the seperate sensor. Plus it doesn't cost that much to have the bung welded into your exhaust system, I think my muffler shop charged me about $14.50.

Yes locating the wideband in the factory O2 housing will most likely shorten its life as they do not like to see the high temps, but you can always replace the factory O2 sensor thats after the cat location, that is if your not running a cat. I did like most and just had a bung welded in after the downpipe flex section

 

[talondude4]

OK i know how to check for a ecu eprom we got that straight, all i wanted to know is should i run the wide band with the afc? and is it any help.

 

[andymoraitis]

It's a great tuning tool, but if you don't have a logger, I would invest in one of those first so that you can look for dips in timing that will indicate that the motor's too lean and knocking. A wideband will tell you the air/fuel, but there's nothing like finding the threshold of knock to optimize the tune. In a perfect world, both are preferred, but a logger is just about essential when changing the ECU airflow maps and jacking the timing like you would with an AFC.

Make sense?

Andy

 

[mirkoelek]

You dont need afc, logger or wideband. Get the dsmlink and you got all that in one. I have a wideband and the dsmlink, my logs for a/f ratio were very close to wideband reading. You only need an estimate. Why bother paying more, just get the dsmlink and you are good.

 

[WatchItExplode]

you dont need afc, logger or wideband. get the dsmlink and you got all that in one. i have a wideband and the dsmlink, my logs for a/f ratio were very close to wideband reading. you only need an estimate. why bother paying more, just get the dsmlink and you are good.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'd like you to clarify this for me. Are you saying that DSMlink uses the OEM O2 sensor to read a/f ratio, and that it's almost as accurate as your wideband reader? Or does DSMlink somehow interface with your wideband sensor?

 

[spoolup]

DSMlink can read the stock O2 sensor but it not accurate since it is a 0-1V signal. But if you buy dsmlink AND a wideband you can log the wideband with DSMlnk as well and the wideband would be more accurate.

Does this table below help:
Fuel tuning: AFC, DSMlink, AEM
logging: DSMlnk, AEM, pocketlogger
monitoring devices: boost gauge, EGT, wideband

You really need all 3, now some can be used together. IE DSMlink can tune and log, then you can provide the output of CERTIAN devices into dsmlink and dsmlink can sample those as well and you can see what the wideband was doing at certian RPM points at the same times as say knock or airflow ect. Where if you the logger AFC combo you will not be able tolog the wideband and have to look at it more as traveling down the track then if you see something unique, (a dip in the o2s from a misfire) you will have to remeber the RPM and then after the run compare that to the slower sampled log of the pocketlogger.

 

[daren_p]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'd like you to clarify this for me. Are you saying that DSMlink uses the OEM O2 sensor to read a/f ratio, and that it's almost as accurate as your wideband reader? Or does DSMlink somehow interface with your wideband sensor?

Yes DSMLink does give you an estimated air/fuel ratio by using the stock O2 sensor & to tell you the truth its estimate was pretty close to my widband when I got it. On the lower rpms before the turbo spooled they weren't all that close but once I hit my set boost they were witin a few points. DSMlink would be the way to go, fuel & timing control, logging, monitor knock, estimated air/fuel plus all the additional features. You can get a pretty dame good tune just with it. Then when you have the cash add a wideband and you have a complete tuning package.

 

[mirkoelek]

Yes DSMLink does give you an estimated air/fuel ratio by using the stock O2 sensor & to tell you the truth its estimate was pretty close to my widband when I got it. On the lower rpms before the turbo spooled they weren't all that close but once I hit my set boost they were witin a few points. DSMlink would be the way to go, fuel & timing control, logging, monitor knock, estimated air/fuel plus all the additional features. You can get a pretty dame good tune just with it. Then when you have the cash add a wideband and you have a complete tuning package.

You are right man, i like the color of your car dude.

 

[destruckeclipse]

DSMLink all the way. I know people who swear by it, and would never go back to a afc / logger setup.

 

[Apeximprt2nr]

Daren P explains it perfectly. DSMlink & Wideband Owns. It's the best way to go, and the most efficient.