Need advise on head rebuild/bad valve seals

[BOBS90TURBO]

Ok, my 90 tsi has 130k on it, and runs perfect(very strong) but started to puff very light blue smoke at idle, so I am guessing valve seals, I have talked to BJ's machine shop here in Tulsa(The guys that build Shepards engines,and the BJ sheet meatal intakes) and they said for $250 they would install some new seals as long as I brought them my head, and for $600 they will do a rebuild and angle valve job with porting/polishing included.

What I need is a little advise on a few things,

1. Has anyone done the valve seal change with the head still on, and if so how hard was it to do???

2. Is it really worth the money for the angle job etc.... how much HP gain if any????

3. If I do end up removing the head for a rebuild, what should I do besides remove the b-shafts, like should I throw in new piston rings and if so how hard is this to do?????

THANKS A BUNCH FOR LOOKING

 

[Sourpatch]

Your already spending money so might as well give it the work's

 

[jfdid]

Man, that's pretty pricey...I had mine done....angle job, etc for 300 CDN.

Maybe shop around..

 

[Nt-Eclipse-Dail]

It only cost me @$65.00 to have my cyl head cleaned, resurfaced, painted, valve job(including grinding the stem and setting the spring height), new valve seals installed, new freeze plug, etc. IMO that shop is charging WAY too much... Are they taking it off too and puting it back on?

Before you let anyone do a port and polish on your head, Make SURE that they have done a Mitsubishi head before. They could very easily cause you more problems than you think.

 

[4Restore]

Years ago I put new valve seals in a Ford 302 without removing the head by putting the cylinder under air pressure thru the spark plug hole (they make adapters for this). I have also been told (but never tried) that feeding a length of rope in thru the spark plug hole and turn the enginge over by hand to jam the valves closed also works. Of course a valve job with port and polish does sound inviting.

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

The rope method works. Feed a couple feet in through the spark plug hole. Then turn the engine by hand so the cylinder comes up and "crushes" the rope holding the valves from dropping.

 

[igopoopy]

a head rebuild kit cost 90 dollars it comes with evry gasket ans seal on the head
you cant change piston rings with out pulling the whole motor thats extra work
get the book to your car from auto zone that will tell you how to change the seals without pulling the head

 

[rebuilt65]

Ok, my 90 tsi has 130k on it, and runs perfect(very strong) but started to puff very light blue smoke at idle, so I am guessing valve seals, I have talked to BJ's machine shop here in Tulsa(The guys that build Shepards engines,and the BJ sheet meatal intakes) and they said for $250 they would install some new seals as long as I brought them my head, and for $600 they will do a rebuild and angle valve job with porting/polishing included.

What I need is a little advise on a few things,

1. Has anyone done the valve seal change with the head still on, and if so how hard was it to do???

2. Is it really worth the money for the angle job etc.... how much HP gain if any????

3. If I do end up removing the head for a rebuild, what should I do besides remove the b-shafts, like should I throw in new piston rings and if so how hard is this to do?????

THANKS A BUNCH FOR LOOKING

1. You can change the seals with the head on the car. Compressed air and a sparkplug hole adapter wil keep the valves in place. The problem is, you wil need a valve spring compressor that will fit on the splayed valves that these cars come with. None of the standard valve spring compressors will work.(they didn't work for me)

2. The price these guys want is a bit high if they are only changing the seals. If they will inspect the head, check valve train tolerances including spring tension, and do a complete cleanup of the head including changing the seals, then that is not too bad.

3. If you do remove the head, check the compression before you do. You may not have to change the rings. I didn't have to, and my car runs fine and has great compression.

4. Eliminate the ballance shafte regardless of what you decide. The bearings are a ticking bomb and will eventually fail on you. Mine were worn so that if I had left them in, they would have failed soon. I di not have any indication that they were on their way out.
You could also replace the rod bearings while you are in there. I did. Mine were ok, but I did just because the engine had high mileage.

I was not trying to build a race engine, just squeeze about 20 K more miles out of it before I build my 2.4 L strocker.

 

[xchris18x]

Are there any guide videos or reading materials to help me learn over time how to rebuild my own motor.... head, timing, etc on a 4g63t.

Thanks, Jeff

 

[BOBS90TURBO]

Thanks for all the advise,

I really would like to get rid of the BS shafts to avoid a problem later down the road, and if I end up pulling the head I will, but at this point I am 100% happy with my car, it still shocks me at how fast my car has been since the turbo upgrade , I really just want to stop the puffs(smoke) as cheap as possible.

The car has a new meatal head gasket and T-belt so I really do not want to have to take the head off and replace stuff that is not very old, I am going to try to change the seals myself without pulling the head, If anyone else has any more advise or recomendations on this please let me know. Thanks Again

 

[mxpimp18]

I just got quoted $265 for a oem rebuild of my head. $15 more bucks and you can rebuild the entire head.

 

[BOBS90TURBO]

Does that price include them pulling the head and T-belt or you??????

If I can not figure out how to change my valve seals and I end up pulling my head and taking it somwhere I may look around. The place I took it to, is BJ's machine shop, they are the best, they build John Shepards engines from the bottom up, so I really would like to have them do it, you know it will be done right.

 

[BOBS90TURBO]

Also if anyone is interested, John Shepard will be at BJ's all next week and he is going to be running his low 8 second 1g at Tulsa international speedway against a built twin turbo 911 for an undisclosed amount of money. I am not 100% sure what day, if anyone whats to know I will find out tusday and post it here.

 

[xchris18x]

Are there any guide videos or reading materials to help me learn over time how to rebuild my own motor.... head, timing, etc on a 4g63t.

Thanks, Jeff

 

[1fast97gsx]

I just got quoted $265 for a oem rebuild of my head. $15 more bucks and you can rebuild the entire head.

What exactly was done in this so called "rebuild"?

 

[Frontwheeler]

My 4G63 head experience has lead me to this conclusion.

1. A normal "valve job" includes disassembly of valvtrain, hot tank cleaning, regrinding of valve seats and valves, resurfacing, thourough inspection, and reassembly with new valve seals. This normally runs around $165 in my area. (Midwest)

2. If a broken timing belt has occured, you will most likely need new valves and new guides pressed in. This and all the work included in #1 will end up running around $300.

This is all assuming you have removed the head yourself. As far as having a good head that just needs new valve seals. Your looking at a good weekend removal/reinstall of your head which should only cost you the price of new valve seals, head gasket, and intake gasket, and a Sear's valve spring compressor. Those compressors can easily be modded by cutting a chunk out of a deep well socket. (V-Faq) I have no experience with removing valve train components with the head still on, so cant help you there.

Just my 2 cents. And you guys that live on the coasts might have totally different machine shop prices. And a good Haynes shop manual will take you through it step by step.

 

[pickens]

I just spent $650 on my head.

Regular valve job - $300 w/ 5-angle job, replace seals, etc.
SS Valves - $200
Bronze Guides - $100
taxes, misc. $50

 

[BOBS90TURBO]

Thanks a bunch for all the info on heads and prices,

Hey Pickens, On the $650 you spent, with that price did you get everything you listed, like the ss valves, also do you notice any more power with the 5 angle valve job??? And did you also get it ported and polished????

Like I said I am more than happy with the power my car makes now, hell I beat a new Mach1 and ran a 12.4 @110 a few weeks ago,(no Nos) I do not see to many cars out there out running me with what I got, but I guess I could see spending a little extra for some of the head extras if thet really do give noticable gains, if not I think I would pass and just get the basics. Again Thanks for the help.

 

[mxpimp18]

Both 1 and 2 for $265

"1. A normal "valve job" includes disassembly of valvtrain, hot tank cleaning, regrinding of valve seats and valves, resurfacing, thourough inspection, and reassembly with new valve seals. This normally runs around $165 in my area. (Midwest)

2. If a broken timing belt has occured, you will most likely need new valves and new guides pressed in. This and all the work included in #1 will end up running around $300."

 

[pickens]

Don't know about power gains yet. Still breaking in the motor. Truthfully, I'll never really know any true gains since I did alot of things at once.