Record big rod HP output?

[UndergroundR32]

I was wondering what the record is for hp on the 6 bolt engines' big rods, reguardless of pistons.

 

[NosLaser]

The stock big rods give out at right around that 500 wheel HP level. I personally made 423 wheel HP on stock 1G big rods. Is that what you are looking for?

Regards,

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Best I've heard is 470whp by a guy in AL. I believe it was on a stock bottom end with an FP Red.

 

[UndergroundR32]

Yes, that's what I wanted to know pretty much. I will most likely be running a Green and I'm trying to decide between the motor I'm building which I have forged pistons and aftermarket billet rods for, OR another complete motor which has just recently become available to me. It has forged pistons but stock rods, and I was curious as to what that bottom end would be capable of, whether I use a Green or not.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by UndergroundR32
I was wondering what the record is for hp on the 6 bolt engines' big rods, reguardless of pistons.

I would like to ask the very same question, but on a 7 bolt with stock rods and pistons? I have always read or heard 400hp. Is that crank hp or whp? Thanks!!

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Andre in NJ put down 430whp on a stock 7 bolt motor on PUMP GAS, with an FP Green. I"ve heard stories of 453whp, but don't remember it being verified.

 

[DSMu4ia]

It's not horsepower that breaks rods, but improper tuning and/or revving.

480-500whp is when things start getting iffy. It's right on the edge, one bad batch of gas or a slight detonation and expect to have a hole in your block.

2g pistons can handle a good deal more than this, but usually when people break rods, they go all out, and end up with a forged/forged combo.

 

[LaserRST]

Originally posted by DSMu4ia
It's not horsepower that breaks rods, but improper tuning and/or revving.

2g pistons can handle a good deal more than this, but usually when people break rods, they go all out, and end up with a forged/forged combo.

HAHA...:laugh: essentially it is horse power that breaks rods. Or more so the force applied from piston to the crank that can bend and break rods. Tuning can do any thing from blowing the head clean off the block to welding pistons to cylinder walls. Dont push it especially if you love your car. If you plan to go beyond 400hp at the crank change em. I see it this way if cars tires can only hold 35psi why risk putting 40 in em? Sure they can handle it...but what are you gonna say when they blow up due to an impact break. Plan ahead to reach your goals. Failures dont plan to fail, they fail to plan...

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by LaserRST


HAHA...:laugh: essentially it is horse power that breaks rods. Or more so the force applied from piston to the crank that can bend and break rods. Tuning can do any thing from blowing the head clean off the block to welding pistons to cylinder walls. Dont push it especially if you love your car. If you plan to go beyond 400hp at the crank change em. I see it this way if cars tires can only hold 35psi why risk putting 40 in em? Sure they can handle it...but what are you gonna say when they blow up due to an impact break. Plan ahead to reach your goals. Failures dont plan to fail, they fail to plan...

Personally I don't see the point of upgrading something if it doesn't require it.

If I had a 1g AWD with a 6-bolt, I would not touch it, until it either blows up, or drinks a quart of oil every 100 miles.

400@crank on a 6-bolt is weak. Plenty of people pushing 400whp on a 6-bolt, and not having a bit of problems.

After all I've been through, I wouldn't touch a stock short block unless something necessitated it..ala motor blowing, crankwalk, etc. I would run it til it blows.

 

[LaserRST]

And the difference between a back yard tuner and a street tuner has been defined. Glad you have all that extra income to compensate for your bottom end possibly your car as the engine siezes at 115 pushing your 450 horses. If I had that kinda cash I would just buy some rods and pistons, then invest the rest.

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by LaserRST
And the difference between a back yard tuner and a street tuner has been defined. Glad you have all that extra income to compensate for your bottom end possibly your car as the engine siezes at 115 pushing your 450 horses. If I had that kinda cash I would just buy some rods and pistons, then invest the rest.

Care to put that in English for the majority of us?

So, you're saying you'd do a $3000 forged motor buildup, instead of letting a (free) stock motor blow up?

Your stock motor might not blow up for 2 more years, or next week, you don't know.

I've seen quite a few motors blow, and I can't say I've ever seen one damage a car. I've seen rods being chucked out of the side of the block, and killing a starter and some other small parts, but nothing major. I've seen worse when flywheels explode.

 

[UndergroundR32]

DSM- I can't look at things from your perspective. It's probably nice go into something with the thought that "hey if it breaks I'll just replace it with something stronger".
Then I run into having to break down the engine and send it to my machine shop for a nice hefty bill to have it bored/honed, and easily over 1000 for a new bottom end. I'd much rather be safe than sorry. I've made plenty of stupid decisions in the past so I'd rather spend the extra bucks to do things right, the first time.

Well I said most likely I'll have a green, but I haven't really considered a T3/T4 setup because I don't know enough about them, and what the pros and cons would be of having a full garrett turbo, as apposed to a bolt on. As of now, a green is enough power for me, because I will drive the car daily during the summer. I can't say that my plans wont change after a month of having the car though, . I'm not concerned with lag either. As long as it pulls like mad once full boost hits. I have the parts to rev pretty high, so...

 

[LaserRST]

A good set of rods and pistons wont cost 3g's. Will barely git into 1500.00. I got a set of Pauter rods and weiseco pistons for under 650.00 brand new and this is good for 600 hp. This is a FWD car and if an engine siezes up at high speeds you at no doubt lose control of the vehicle. This could cost you your car or your life either one is worth risking. I had an engine sieze up at 30 mph and it pitched me sideways trying to merge back into traffic. Now imagine that at 100mph....the solution is really look for your goal and achieve them wisely. Besides who will say that the next block will be as good as the one you had. They are not all the same. Common sense.

 

[v8slayer]

The killer of rods is mostly pre-ignition.
If you have your engine tuned perfectly and a efficient turbo system from start to finish you can get great power from OEM big rods.

I ran a T4, 60-1 with a .82 AR / Stage 5 turbine at 32 PSI last year with no failures or hick ups on a small rod 1993 engine more times than I could count. The engine had 230,000KM on it with only bolt on mods.

My new engine is a 91 with only race internals , I hope I get the same reliability I got from my small rod engine.

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by DSMu4ia


Personally I don't see the point of upgrading something if it doesn't require it.

One word: Reliability. My goal for my car is about 400 WHP, which should be attainable with good tuning, a speed-density setup and a 50-trim/TO4E turbo. Following your reasoning, I should just bolt it on and run the hell out of it until it blows. And I will, to a certain extent. I plan on installing my new turbo and other things while still on the stock motor. But, I also plan on rebuilding the motor eventually with forged rods/pistons, a fully balanced rotating assembly and maybe delete the balance shafts. Also head work, cams, maybe lightweight flywheel.

This is not to say the stock motor will not put out 400 HP, I know it will. But, I don't want to be left side the road in the middle of no where because my engine decided it was giving up.

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by v8slayer

I ran a T4, 60-1 with a .82 AR / Stage 5 turbine at 32 PSI last year with no failures or hick ups on a small rod 1993 engine more times than I could count. The engine had 230,000KM on it with only bolt on mods.

What kind of oil (brand/weight) do you run?

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by LaserRST
A good set of rods and pistons wont cost 3g's. Will barely git into 1500.00. I got a set of Pauter rods and weiseco pistons for under 650.00 brand new and this is good for 600 hp. This is a FWD car and if an engine siezes up at high speeds you at no doubt lose control of the vehicle. This could cost you your car or your life either one is worth risking. I had an engine sieze up at 30 mph and it pitched me sideways trying to merge back into traffic. Now imagine that at 100mph....the solution is really look for your goal and achieve them wisely. Besides who will say that the next block will be as good as the one you had. They are not all the same. Common sense.

What about the machine work, new front cover, new oil housing, new timing belt, gasket kit, and all that other stuff? Oh ya, you must have forgotten about that.

Stock motors have went faster than most of you will ever go. You are the same guys that upgrade your 14b's when you are doing mid 14's at 95mph. I guess if you feel like wasting your money go right ahead.

I've heard of more "built" motors taking a #@%#@%#@%#@% than stock motors. Alot can go wrong when you tear down and rebuild a motor.

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[LaserRST]

Originally posted by DSMu4ia


What about the machine work, new front cover, new oil housing, new timing belt, gasket kit, and all that other stuff? Oh ya, you must have forgotten about that.

Stock motors have went faster than most of you will ever go. You are the same guys that upgrade your 14b's when you are doing mid 14's at 95mph. I guess if you feel like wasting your money go right ahead.

I've heard of more "built" motors taking a #@%#@%#@%#@% than stock motors. Alot can go wrong when you tear down and rebuild a motor.

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Uh... dude... dont need front cover...oil housing, dont need... timing belt and gasket kit is good idea cost under 250.00 plus machine work will be more maybe 160.00. These engines oil good, a 6bolt engine dont need much machining, your stock engine will blow before any PROPERLY built engine. I guess you dont have the mathmatical skills or any understanding of all the profits you get off stronger lighter rods and pistons, one of em is higher output, but thats fine. The only reason built motors blow because of hitting harder HP than you will ever see in your stock moter. Learn from the pros dude... or learn the hard way. 400 HP is right up there with the Z-06 Corvette, if you think your stock engine will handle it fine. If something goes wrong...it wont handle it, promise you that. Sounds to me like you dont trust your mechanical skills to do a proper build. Do it right the first time....

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by LaserRST


Uh... dude... dont need front cover...oil housing, dont need... timing belt and gasket kit is good idea cost under 250.00 plus machine work will be more maybe 160.00. These engines oil good, a 6bolt engine dont need much machining, your stock engine will blow before any PROPERLY built engine. I guess you dont have the mathmatical skills or any understanding of all the profits you get off stronger lighter rods and pistons, one of em is higher output, but thats fine. The only reason built motors blow because of hitting harder HP than you will ever see in your stock moter. Learn from the pros dude... or learn the hard way. 400 HP is right up there with the Z-06 Corvette, if you think your stock engine will handle it fine. If something goes wrong...it wont handle it, promise you that. Sounds to me like you dont trust your mechanical skills to do a proper build. Do it right the first time....

Sorry you must have way more knowledge than me.

So you are going to do the cheap way out of it, and re-use old parts on a race built motor? Nothing like having an old oil pump take out a brand new motor.

Motors need machined regardless, if they have take a lot off, or a little, it's still the same idea.

Just because Chevrolet made the Z-06 a 400hp car, has nothing what so ever to do with our cars. That's a STOCK car, we are modifying our cars.

And just FYI: I'm doing a 550hp DSM buildup, so I know all too well about costs, machining, build-ups, etc.

How fast is your car?

Maybe I'll re-iterate..

Horsepower DOES NOT KILL MOTORS! Tuning does.

 

[LaserRST]

HAHAHAA DUDE YOUR NOT MODIFYING YOUR ENGINE! Thats the point of the whole string. Your using stock parts and tryna safely juice out 400hp? Think about for a moment. True, HP does not kill motors tuning does. Somewhere along the line something will go wrong though, and the built motor will react well and be more repairable at 600hp. The stock motor will react severly at 400hp if something goes wrong. Spend some time at the track and ask...its all a matter of doing things wisely. A motor is an investment when you have work in it. Save it and increase you HP at the same time. Do it right the first time... do it smart..

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by LaserRST
HAHAHAA DUDE YOUR NOT MODIFYING YOUR ENGINE! Thats the point of the whole string. Your using stock parts and tryna safely juice out 400hp? Think about for a moment. True, HP does not kill motors tuning does. Somewhere along the line something will go wrong though, and the built motor will react well and be more repairable at 600hp. The stock motor will react severly at 400hp if something goes wrong. Spend some time at the track and ask...its all a matter of doing things wisely. A motor is an investment when you have work in it. Save it and increase you HP at the same time. Do it right the first time... do it smart..

Answer my questions in the above post.

What does:

"HAHAHAA DUDE YOUR NOT MODIFYING YOUR ENGINE!"

mean?

On another thought, your built motor, will make no more horsepower (variables like CR, headwork, stroker, etc aside) than your stock motor.

 

[LaserRST]

So stroking the engine doesnt gain hp. Nor does the factor of taking 1lb of weight off the crank = +6 hp? Your ignorance is becoming amusing. Your saying your modified 400hp engine has the same durability as the z-06? RIIIIGGGHHHT!

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by LaserRST
So stroking the engine doesnt gain hp. Nor does the factor of taking 1lb of weight off the crank = +6 hp? Your ignorance is becoming amusing. Your saying your modified 400hp engine has the same durability as the z-06? RIIIIGGGHHHT!

How old are you?

Can you read?

Ever try "Hooked on Phonics?"

I'm just trying to get answers out of you.

It's very amusing to me, that you have a built engine, a huge turbo, and no fuel control. Not even a boost controller. That sucker must haul ass. Nothing like "playing it safe" eh?

Back to the original posters question:

Big rods can take about 500+/- a few whp, before they say enough's enough. Alot of these numbers were back before UBB's, and not alot of people dyno'd, so their HP was estimated based on track times.

 

[LaserRST]

Originally posted by DSMu4ia


How old are you?

Can you read?

Ever try "Hooked on Phonics?"

I'm just trying to get answers out of you.

It's very amusing to me, that you have a built engine, a huge turbo, and no fuel control. Not even a boost controller. That sucker must haul ass. Nothing like "playing it safe" eh?

Touchy, touchy...

 

[UndergroundR32]

I feel like I am on DSMtalk with all this flaming back and forth. You guy obviously cannot agree on the subject, so leave it at that. Stop trying to tell the other that he's an idiot because...