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Remove Mass with S-AFC?

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TsiTalon90

20+ Year Contributor
159
0
Dec 23, 2002
Granby, Massachusetts
I was talking to a guy at a meet yesterday and he said are you running no mass with that AF-C. I told him no i havn't had much time to tune it. I dodn't think it was possible but he said his freind did it because it was so restrictive.

Any input on this?

Thanks Josh
 
i call bs on that. unless he switched to a gm maft setup. You need to measure the airflow with some kind of sensor.
 
You cannot remove your mas.
 
kooka said:
You cannot remove your mas.
Click to expand...
Not exactly true. You can't remove the MAS/MAF without replacing it with something else that generates a compatable signal. Two examples are the VPC and the GM hotwire with a MAFT. The SAFC can't or won't convert from one form of air metering to a karman count based one.

Steve
 
He has a safc and is asking this question. Please, don't confuse him anymore.

Original poster: You cannot remove your MAS.
 
In other words, if this other guy has ONLY an AFC for tuning just like you do, you can not take it out. The AFC only modify's the signal from the MAF that is sent to the computer. Thats why you cut that one wire going in and the other going back out to the comptuer. If the MAF is not there giving a signal what exactly are we modifying? Nothing because there is nothing to modify. An AFC does not replace a MAF sensor. Even notice your afc makes changes in a percentage? Lets say you added 50% fuel and took your MAF out. What is a 50% increase of 0?

This sounds like the honda guys wondering if an AFC will replace a rising rate FMU on their cars when they go turbo. People seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of what a SAFC does. :confused:
 
you can have all the electronical gizmos in the world and if you dont have a maf on these cars, they wont start!
 
JiveMasterT said:
you can have all the electronical gizmos in the world and if you dont have a maf on these cars, they wont start!
Click to expand...

You are wrong.

To add insult to your injury, I bet you 100 dollars that you could take the MAS out of a 100% stock DSM with no gizmos and it will start.

Have a nice day.
 
kooka said:
you could take the MAS out of a 100% stock DSM with no gizmos and it will start.
Click to expand...
That's correct, people unplug them all the time, start the car and wonder why they have a CEL, but man you really have to work on your delivery.

Steve
 
kooka said:
He has a safc and is asking this question. Please, don't confuse him anymore.
Click to expand...


I dont see it as confusion. If I have an AFC and a VPC then I have removed my MAF and I am still using an AFC. So, yes, you can, but the ECU still needs some sort of way to read air flow or pressure so it can use the correct fuel and timming maps. Gettign rid of your MAF all together wont work. It has to be replaced with something else to measure airflow.
 
boostedinaz said:
I dont see it as confusion. If I have an AFC and a VPC then I have removed my MAF and I am still using an AFC. So, yes, you can, but the ECU still needs some sort of way to read air flow or pressure so it can use the correct fuel and timming maps. Gettign rid of your MAF all together wont work. It has to be replaced with something else to measure airflow.
Click to expand...

He doesn't have a VPC. Please reread his setup.

That's correct, people unplug them all the time, start the car and wonder why they have a CEL, but man you really have to work on your delivery.
Click to expand...

Please don't confuse "start" with "run".
 
kooka said:
You are wrong.

To add insult to your injury, I bet you 100 dollars that you could take the MAS out of a 100% stock DSM with no gizmos and it will start.

Have a nice day.
Click to expand...

eh, i made that assumption based on my car... when installed a new intake on the car i forgot to plug the mas back in and it wouldnt turn over. i guess im the only one? anyhow, i plugged it back in and it worked fine. go figure.

i wasnt trying to be a tool, i was just going on what ive experienced. my bad, sorry.
 
JiveMasterT said:
i forgot to plug the mas back in and it wouldnt turn over. i guess im the only one? anyhow, i plugged it back in and it worked fine.
Click to expand...

Impossible. MAS has nothing to do with your starter getting power or not.
 
Anyone try running a GM 3 bar Map for the AFC flow signal input, running the AFC in the MAP sensor mode, and then sending the output singal to the ECU in the normal fasion, and tune accordingly?
 
Read all of post #5. The MAP sensor outputs a voltage not a pulse train.
Second the MAF measures air volume per unit time combined with the baro and temp the ECU computes air mass per unit time. MAP just measures pressure and you have no idea of the volume of air moving. You would need a stand alone speed density setup to make it work.

Steve
 
coltboostin said:
Anyone try running a GM 3 bar Map for the AFC flow signal input, running the AFC in the MAP sensor mode, and then sending the output singal to the ECU in the normal fasion, and tune accordingly?
Click to expand...

Yeah, its called a VPC. It does what you are thiniking. It changes it from a MAF sensor to a Speed desity. They are pretty nice but a MAFT would work fairly well and you are going big enough then a stand alone would be you best bet.
 
kooka said:
Impossible. MAS has nothing to do with your starter getting power or not.
Click to expand...

Don't confuse "wouldn't turn over" with "the starter not getting power". :rolleyes:
 
The starter only turns when it gets power. Period.

Thanks for comming out.
 
Geez, talk about uptight. Can't even take a sarcastic remark... :rolleyes:

Lighten up man. Not everyone is as ubersmart as you. :shhh: Don't take everything so literally. Every friggin post, you sound like my grandpa who complains about every little fuking thing. :thumbdown
 
JiveMasterT said:
eh, i made that assumption based on my car... when installed a new intake on the car i forgot to plug the mas back in and it wouldnt turn over. i guess im the only one? anyhow, i plugged it back in and it worked fine. go figure.

i wasnt trying to be a tool, i was just going on what ive experienced. my bad, sorry.
Click to expand...

You made an assumption based on one experiance on your car going against 14 years of DSM racing experiance with NO real basis. Why in the world would you do that?
 
GSX_RCR said:
Geez, talk about uptight. Can't even take a sarcastic remark... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem very sarcastic with a " :rolleyes: " after the comment.
 
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