Timing Belt Help

[Turbo 2g awd]

I need to take off the timing belt in my 1997 Talon to change my cams. I have a 6 Bolt motor in my car and I am using the stock 2gen motor mount. I was told that you cant use the tensioner tool cause of where the 2gen mount is. I just got this motor from SBR as a long block and it only has 4000miles on it so the belt and everything is going back on. What is the easiest way to get the belt on and off. Can I just unbolt the Tensioner or do I have to loosen the Tensioner Pulley too. I am just taking it off to change cams so I would like to remove as little as possible. If I don't need to loosen the Tensioner pulley it would save me from having to readjust it which might be hard not being able to use the tensioner tool. Thanks for you help.
Adam

 

[1fast97gsx]

I honestly DON'T recommend doing it this way ... but here is what we did on a friends car.

Take off the valve cover. Set 1 and 4 pistons at tdc. Literally just slide the belt off of the intake and exhaust cam gears and try to keep some tension on it to make sure it doesn't slide off of the crank or oil pump sprokets. ( this will make it easier lining it up later ) Then do the cam swap which will be very fast and simple assuming you already took the valve cover off. Then just take the belt and slide it over the EXHAUST cam gear and as far as you can onto the intake cam gear ( it may only be a few teeth but thats fine ) I suggest clipping it to the gear of prying it with a screw driver to make sure it stays on the intake gear. Then have someone rotate the crank clockwise and if you keep pressure on the belt to keep it from sliding back off then it wil walk itself back on the intake gear. Continue to rotate the crank until all the timing marks line up again. Check timing and that's it.

 

[BUCK]

I would FIRST have to confirm firsthand that you couldn't use the DETENSIONING tool (that's what the Allthread does) to back off the Tensioner & allow you to install the Grenade Pin to hold it de-tensioned (that's what the grenade Pin does) - ANY shortcuts here can be a Nightmare - We need a 2g guy in this Thread with a 6 Bolt ASAP.

 

[Turbo 2g awd]

I might just take off the tensioner only and then slide the belt off. Then when I am done with the cam swap I will compress the tensioner in a vice and put the pin in it. Then bolt it back in the car and pull the pin. It should still be adjusted correctly I think. If not I guess I would have to adjust the tensioner pulley and go fom there.

BTW...Is there any adjustment on the Tensioner itself. Or does it just bolt right up? Cause if all the adjustment is in the Tensioner pulley then this should work.

 

[BUCK]

That method of compressing Tensioner will work - but that re-installation method won't work - When Grenade Pin is in Tensioner the Tensioner Rod is positioned at the point where ZERO gap exists between Tensioner Pulley Arm & Tensioner Rod - so you'll not get Tensioner in position to bolt it back on - Tensioner Pulley & consequently Timing Belt must be loosened to have room to reinstall Tensioner & then re-set Tension. The problem is you say you may have no way to RECOMPRESS Tensioner Rod with Tensioner in place if gap is WRONG spec - OR - IF BELT ROLLS ONE TOOTH OFF WHEN YOU TENSION IT - BOTH of those HAPPEN & THAT WILL BE A PROBLEM - Remember this is NOT a kinda-sorta close deal - it's gotta be right or valves on your nice new Head are History...

ONCE AGAIN - YOU NEED TO CONFIRM FIRSTHAND THAT YOU CAN'T USE THE ALLTHREAD TOOL.

 

[BUCK]

-May be necessary to BIAS / mis-Time Exhaust Cam ONE Tooth Clockwise - Belt Tensioning will roll it back into time.

-Don't forget to apply soft Loctite or RTV to Tensioner Fasteners & apply Final Torque.

-Run ALLTHREAD Tool in until Tensioner Bottoms

-Basically you preload the Eccentric Tension Pulley enough to achieve the correct Tension setting...

-PRE-LOAD the Eccentric Tension Pulley slightly & snug Pulley Bolt

-Back off ALLTHREAD TOOL letting the Tensioner Tension the T/Belt

-Check Tension setting with Pin

-If gap is too large you have UNDER TENSIONED BELT

-IF UNDERTENSIONED put a LOAD under Tensioner Pulley with long Screwdriver & SIMULTANEOUSLY loosen Pulley Bolt, putting more Tension on Belt & Snug up Pulley Bolt while applying Load.

- Check Tension setting with Pin

- If Pin checks Sat apply Final Torque to Pulley Bolt & RECHECK TENSION SETTING (I used soft Loctite on this Bolt too).

- If Gap is too small you have OVER-TENSIONED Belt

- Don't forget you have ALLTHREAD tool there to help you hold what Tension you've got - but don't forget to back it off at least a few turns when appropriate so Tensioner can apply Tension.

- Install just enuff Belts to run Water Pump - attach Battery charger & run Motor with NO Timing Covers

-Immediately when you get it running Reset Base Timing & Idle as it comes up to Full Running Temp - Start off with CAS at middle of adjustment - Check for Coolant Leaks - Check your new Water Pump & O Ring, etc, etc...

- After a good hot idle or 2 re-check Tension with Pin & Button up Covers if all is SAT - expect to see one good stretch as Belt sets in & one good re-setting after initial idle

 

[TurboGraphX]

Unless you are going to be changing the cam gears, you don't have to do any of the above.
When I do cam swaps for people on the 4G63, this is exactly how I do it. (It may sound ghetto, but will work if you take your time and be patient.)

WHAT YOU WILL NEED:
1) Two (2) 24 inch bungee cords.
2) Six (6) 1/4 inch wide zip ties.
3) New valve cover gasket with spark plug tube seals and simi-circular plug.

STEPS:
1) Set engine at TDC
2) Remove upper cam cover.
3) Remove Valve cover.
4) Remove the CAS from the head.
5) Use a socket and ratchet on the cam gear bolt, and a large adjusteable wrench to hold the cam, and break the cam gear bolts lose. (DO NOT remove them yet)
6) take the zip ties and put at least three on each cam gear to hold the timing belt in place on the gear. ( put one as close as you can to the top, one as close as you can towards the side away from the other gear, and one about middle ways between them)(get them tight so the belt cannot slip)(use 1/4 as smaller ones can cut into the belt)
7) once the cam gear bolts are broken loose, hook one end of each bungee cord to the cam gears and stretch them to the hood and hook the other ends into a slot or hole in the underside of the hood. (try to find a slot or hole directly above the cam gears... can be off a few inches)
8) Once the cam gears are hooked to the hood. HOLD the cam gear with one hand and remove the cam gear bolt. (hold that sucker as it now has tension on it from the bongee cord!)
9) once the bolt is out, slide the cam gear toward the end of the cam untill it pops free and is supported by the bongee cord.
10) Repeat for the other cam.

The bongee cords will hold the cam gears out of the way and the zipties will hold the belt in perfect time on the gears.

(swap cams)

REINSTALL:

Once the new cams are inplace...
1) Unhook the two bongee cords from the hood. (hold a slight bit of tension on the gears so no slack gets into the belt.
2) slide one cam gear onto the cam and start the cam gear bolt finger tight. (make sure that the dowel pin is fully seated)
3) Slide the second cam gear into place. (make sure that the dowel pin is fully seated.)
Now, you may have to rotate the cam gears a little bit to get them to fit on because the zip ties want to make the gears pull tegehter... this will not be hard though... just DO NOT cut the zip ties untill the gears are both bolted on.
4) Use the adjustable wrench on the cams and a socket and ratchet on the cam gear bolts and torque them to spec.
5) DOUBLE check that the engine timing mark is still at TDC and that both cam gear timing marks line up!
6) cut the zip ties and install new Valve cover gasket, etc.
That's about it!
I do this almost weekly for people and have never had a problem. However, if you don't feel safe doing it this way, then it may be better to get someone to help you or do it for you.
Best of luck!
Ken

 

[BUCK]

^Great Info^!

 

[TurboGraphX]

BUCK,
Same to you. you also supplied some great info and how to's on this topic. I'm just shairing another way to do it. When I do these, it is for other people mostly and they want it done fast.
Ken

 

[1fast97gsx]

I have a question regarding the actual tensioning tool ... what is the exact thread and pitch? I plan on just buying a long bolt from the hardware store ... but I don't know what thread I need. I'm swapping my stock head back on and I'd rather use the tool this time since I am installing the head with the motor still in the car. Thanks.

 

[BUCK]

It's 8MM - standard Metric Pitch - get a piece about 12 inches long & cut to suit - get several extra Nuts too & have a Hacksaw & File handy.

 

[TurboGraphX]

You can also take the long battery hold down bolt, file off the little ears and extend the treads up the bolt.. then use it as the timing tensioner tool. When you are done, put it back in as the battery hold down bolt. Next time you need the tool, you will know where it is!!
Ken

 

[Defiant]

http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbeltNOTE1.html

http://www.plymouthlaser.com/ttool.htm

or
From luv2rallye

FYI:

For those who don't want to make the battery hold down one or worry about using it more than once/twice (and damage threads), here is where you can tell people the real one is now (I just bought it):

SPX Service Solutions
800 533 0492

part #MLR-MD-998738
$8.55 + shipping