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Bolt-on Tech: 4G63 intake, exhaust, intake manifold, ignition, fuel system, cooling, etc.

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Old 07-30-2004, 12:24 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #1 (permalink)
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what can happen from over torquing your head studs??


like the title says.... while putting in my studs.... the torque wrench i had was all screwed up and i didnt notice it it was sayng it was at 75 pounds.... then id turn a shitload more and it only be at like 76. so anyways i checked with my friends other 2 torue wrenches ( only went up to 85) and said they were all at least at 85.... now my bolts are all at diffeernt torques ... i have no idea how much probably well over 100. nothing snapped.. .im sure they stretched but..... what should I do...... get a good wrench aand just back them out to 85-95 or do i need a new headgasket... or new studs.... according to my friend they are ARP head bolts anyways... but i dont feel like putting this whole thing back together only for my gasket to blow..... thanks in advance

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Old 07-30-2004, 02:40 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #2 (permalink)
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anyone.. please??
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Old 07-30-2004, 05:19 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #3 (permalink)
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Overtorque


When you overtorque above 15% of recommended which in this case would be about 95 ft/lbs you basically turn the fastener into a rubber band. Some of the fasteners will stretch and you will have uneven torque. Add heat and pressure and head gasket blows and the head can even warp. I made this mistake myself when 1 time I torqued my ARP's to 120, the head gasket lasted about 2 weeks after that. So bite the bullet get a new set of ARP's and use their moly. Torque starting at 50 and go up by 10 each time in proper order to 80 then loosen in order and repeat back up to 80. After a few heat cycles retorque. Hope this helps.

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Old 07-30-2004, 06:04 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #4 (permalink)
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ok ill go order some arps,... but will i need another headgasket.... I havent ran the motor yet because im not finished wit the timing belt.... so couldnt i just back them out ..... this headgasket hasnt been run yet.. so i could just loosen my current ( strechtd) bolts out in the right order then put the new ARP's in the right way correct???
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Old 07-30-2004, 10:11 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #5 (permalink)
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you can also distort the cylinder wall hence the use of a torque plate when honing a block to "pre distort" the block so when you bolt the head on its actually a more perfect circle.

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Old 07-31-2004, 12:08 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #6 (permalink)
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not only can you destroy a head gasket, but you will almost certainly warp the head. If your taking the head back off then Id take a straight edge and feeler gauge and measure for overall flatness of the head. Dont worry about the block its cast iron, and to somewhat explain the rubber band theory. The bolts we use on most modern autos are torque to yeild bolts once they have been stretched(when torqing a head the bolts stretch) they cannot be propery torqued again. Good luck
Andrew


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Old 07-31-2004, 09:20 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #7 (permalink)
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Let me first start by saying thst a headgasket is nothing to fool around with . But you could find out with a good torque wrench what you put on the bolts . So find out what you put on them . If it is not rediculously high over the recomended 75 or whatever it is get yourself so new bolts and just slap them in place . You arent going to warp the head just applying it . You have to run it to opperating temps first and even then I wouldnt worry about it unless your block was severly overheated. If it was mine I would check the bolts find the amount of torque applied on each, pull out the least torqued one and the highest torqued one ,take a dial micrometer (caliper) and check for stretch . If I couldnt read anything over .0004 I would use them again and not even worry about the headgasket . The head conforms to the block under torque.

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Old 07-31-2004, 10:32 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #8 (permalink)
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I've had my head torqued to 100ft/lbs using ARPs (and there lube) and a composite HG with no problems.


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Old 07-31-2004, 10:41 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #9 (permalink)
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thanks guys.. this has really helped out a lot .... i have a buddy comin over wit a good wrench and dial tomoro... so we shall see.....
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Old 07-31-2004, 12:00 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burldude
Let me first start by saying thst a headgasket is nothing to fool around with . But you could find out with a good torque wrench what you put on the bolts . So find out what you put on them . If it is not rediculously high over the recomended 75 or whatever it is get yourself so new bolts and just slap them in place . You arent going to warp the head just applying it . You have to run it to opperating temps first and even then I wouldnt worry about it unless your block was severly overheated. If it was mine I would check the bolts find the amount of torque applied on each, pull out the least torqued one and the highest torqued one ,take a dial micrometer (caliper) and check for stretch . If I couldnt read anything over .0004 I would use them again and not even worry about the headgasket . The head conforms to the block under torque.
The whole reason why cars have torque specs and an order in which we torque them is to prevent from warping.
Andrew
Ford Master tech


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Old 07-31-2004, 05:25 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #11 (permalink)
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I couldnt agree with you more but the fact remains that he has not brought the car to operating tempature and none of the bolts have been under torqued.

Head mechanic: Rial Logging , William F Columbi logging ,
Truck maintenance : Phillbrick logging
Auto body tech: Acutech
Currently self employed mechanic Making 3 times what I made before. I only put this up to say yes I to have been turning wrenches for a while . But we all make mistakes from time to time. Like when I was 22 and asked my step dad to torque my 455 heads on my 450 hp 67 Firebird . He jumped up on the car and wrenched the first bolt to 150 ft lbs needless to say my engine didnt last to long .

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Old 08-01-2004, 10:58 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #12 (permalink)
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If you ran the torque up in steps you might not have a problem. It depends on how much you've torqued them to.
I use ARP studs, torqued to 105lbs. cars makes 1000bhp and only torqued it once. I use a thick AJUSA head gasket which can be purchased from Bushur, it's very durable. The head is also ringed, which helps when your running 35+ psi.Of course overheating and detonation can blow any motor.

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Old 08-01-2004, 07:25 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #13 (permalink)
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what is this ive heard about using copper spray on a metal head gasket

i used a thick hks metal gasket, it had a black coating

i didnt spray it with anything???
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Old 08-01-2004, 07:29 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #14 (permalink)
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The spray basically helps keep the gasket in place. It will do nothing if detonation occurs or there's a condition that's going to blow your head gasket. You don't need to spray anything. I'm sure your head is ok. If you went in steps and didn't go above 100ftlbs you should be fine.
How much boost are you running?

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Old 08-01-2004, 07:39 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #15 (permalink)
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i went to arp specs 71lbs with moly lube

i used a hks head gasket

and i had a new stage 5 bj head

and had the block decked
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Old 08-02-2004, 08:04 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #16 (permalink)
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So what did you go about doing ? What did you and your buddy find ?

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Old 08-09-2004, 07:34 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #17 (permalink)
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i just torqued my head to 65lbs, then torgued it to 80lbs

i see most of you guys do it in 3 steps, do you think that will be a problem

ive got a new head from bj

and had my block decked, everything was perfect

and i used arp studs and a hks metal head gasket?????
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Old 08-09-2004, 08:05 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #18 (permalink)
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No problem with that torquing method but it is nicer to gradually bring them up to spec

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Old 08-09-2004, 10:33 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #19 (permalink)
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Not to steal your thread but, what is the recemended bolt tightening sequence for a 1g with stock studs and gaskit?
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