Tial 40mm Wastegate, how do I know the spring presure?

[larryd]

When I ordered it a long time ago I dont recall being asked what spring pressure I wanted so I have no clue what it is. Im trying to determine what my wastegate is opening up really soon on my setup and why ifs fluctuating.. Its either the wastegate itself or the Profec B.. Anyone know how to determine which spring you have?

 

[NDgsx]

Take off the top cover and look at the spring. It will have a color painted on it. Default is yellow=14.2psi.

purple=20psi
white=5.7psi
blue=9.5psi
green=10psi

You need to hook up both ports on the wastegate. Top port gets a bled off source, bottom port gets full pressure. Now how you hook that up to the profec B I don't know, haven't got mine in the mail yet.

 

[larryd]

hmm.. i only have one line hooked up on the external right now.. and another stupid question but which wastegate spring should i have??

 

[Violater101]

Well, the spring will tell you what is in theory the minimum boost you can run. IE .8 bar ~12lbs. If you go to www.tialsport.com I believe it gives you all the colors of the springs which NDGSX listed out. I got the .8 bar spring in mine just so I could run low boost if i wanted to (whole reason I got a Profec B)

 

[AndyFL]

profec goes in the top, boost goes to the middle if I remember correctly.

 

[ILOSE]

Another easy way is to hook the profec as per instructions on the other thread and turn the unit OFF. Then run the car and see where it opens at.
I have a 1.1 bar and it is rock steady, no spike with the unit off.
Also remember that if you goto to low of a spring rate that the adjustment on the profec is only able to increase a percentage of the spring rate. I never run below 17psi anyway. IF I do it's just called a light pedal. But I do run upwards of 25psi. I would not be able to hit that 25 on an 8lb spring. It won't aloow adjustment that high.

It's an easy fix though, you can buy another, higher spring. BTW: The tial is an awesome product.

 

[Violater101]

I don't plan on ever running more than 26 lbs anyhow. Before I run that much, I will get new ARP head studs. On a side note, if I ever decide to make this a full out track car, can you order a different spring from them for minimal cost ...anyone know? I have always heard that you can't run more than double the boost of the spring on a profec B. I guess I could always unhook it and run an mbc if I wanted to run more boost at the track.

 

[OMN_DSM]

Sorry to post off topic but everyone that has posted in this thread seems to have the knoledge to best answer my question.

I used to have the VP O2 dump on my car and recently sold it because it was beyond my performance needs. But I soon plan on upgrading my turbo and will be running either a T3/T4 or an APG turbo and will most likely have to run an external wastgate. So my question is the difference in sound, is an external any quiter, louder, same or does it make a different pich. I would like to keep my car as quite as possible but I know I must give up luxurys for performance. Thaks for any info.

Mike

 

[NDgsx]

Crap Larry I just gave you the entirely wrong spring colors. Those are for an HKS standard gate. I don't remember the tial springs off hand.

Mike you can get o2 housings with the wastegate routed back into the exhaust.
Dumped to atmosphere the sound from different externals will vary. It also depends on the dump tube. If you make a dump tube out of flex pipe it is much quiter.

 

[Violater101]

http://www.tialsport.com/technical.htm to be exact will have the colors . As for sound, an external is just as loud if not louder than a regular dump imo

 

[OMN_DSM]

NDGSX,

I'm guessing that would take welding on my part, correct? And speaking of welding, do you do any of that? I just bought a steel bushing kit for my clutch pedal assy. and will be needing someone to weld my assy. together if your interested. Thanks for your help.

Mike

 

[larryd]

Violater101.. thanks for the link..im gonna check tomorrow and see what spring is in there but from our conversation tonight I think I figured out part of my problem..

First off you said to just check the wastegate to run the hose from the BOV/Intake Manifold to the line on the side of the Ext Gate.. one problem.. I dont have a side exit on the gate.. I have one on the top the points sideways and one on the bottom that points down. So anyhow I tried hooking up that line to each of these sources

With it hooked up to the port on the bottom of the Gate facing down I spiked to almost 2.0 bar before I let off the pedal abruptly..

With it hooked up to the port on the top of the Gate facing sideways I hit 0.5 bar everytime. Which would lead me to believe thats the one I have in the car right now.

Ill double check it tomorrow. But would this cause problems for me if I want to run 20lbs?? Or I should say could this be whats casuing my problems since I want to run like 20lbs and I can get there but the wastegate is opening to soon?

 

[Z1500]

With an electronic boost controller it really doesn't matter what spring you have if you hook it up right. The top port on the w/g gets pressurized (holding it closed) until your profec de-pressurizes it letting it open. The bottom port you want to hook up directly to the intake manifold. And make sure you set the dip switches on the profec to external.

Kevin
www.agpturbo.com

 

[larryd]

so this is what I need to do??

hook up the bottom port of the gate to the T between the intake manifold and blow off valve.

hook up the top port of the gate to the OUT side of the Greddy Box.

hook up the IN side of the Greddy Box to another pressure source, possible another T between the itnake manifold and blow off valve?

 

[Z1500]

That's it. Hook it up like that and set the dip switches to external and you will get great results. And with it hooked up like that it doesn't matter what spring you have in it.
BTW- What BOV do you have?

Kevin
www.agpturbo.com

 

[NDgsx]

Originally posted by OMN_DSM
NDGSX,

I'm guessing that would take welding on my part, correct? And speaking of welding, do you do any of that? I just bought a steel bushing kit for my clutch pedal assy. and will be needing someone to weld my assy. together if your interested. Thanks for your help.

Mike

No most of the places that make tubular o2 housings can do it if you ask.

I don't have a welder right now. Andre Santosa does though. I'm not sure if his is hooked up yet, but if it's not he does have a good welder near his house.

 

[Violater101]

I have always heard that the profec will only alow you to run double the boost of the spring. In Larry's case, it looks as if he has a .5bar spring hence like 15lbs max. Obviously, I don't think that is the case. I know on low setting, with the bar in the middle, I'm getting 15lbs. Once I get some race gas, I'll try to see how much boost I can get up to max of 24lbs...no ARP studs yet :<

 

[ILOSE]

actually .5 bar is only like 7 psi.
But yes it only allows a percentge.
And as far as I know if you have a 1bar you cannot run any lower witha profecb. Unless it is in the way you have the dip switches set.
The top hose to the gate keeps pressure on it to stop it from slowly opening. But it won't allow you to bleed boost to lower it below the spring rate. As far as I know.

 

[Violater101]

Right .5 bar is 7 psi and thus double that would be like 15lbs max boost. Anyone able to run more than double the spring pressure on a Profec B?

 

[ILOSE]

Yes you are correct. Sorry bout that. I missed the "max" word in your previous post. My apoligies.

 

[Violater101]

No worries ... I wonder if I will be able to run more than 24 lbs of my car.... .8 bar spring 12lbs minimum 24lbs max. I know I could run that easy on low boost with my Creep heh , but got that fixed.

 

[larryd]

ok get this..

I tapped the vacuum port on the pipe between the intercooler and turbo and ran that line to the IN on the greddy box

I ran the OUT on the greddy box to the top nipple on the external gate

I ran the bottom nipple on the external gate to the T between the Intake Manifold and the BOV

I started the car and what a difference..

The turbo is spooling up a little faster (about 200rpms faster which appears to be full boost around 3800 or so)..

The boost went up almost immediately to 2.0 bar and I let off of it really quick.. From that point on I changed the settings on the profec a good 100x and have yet to get it to do what I want it to do.

Currently my Balance Knob is in the middle and I have it set for low boost which is turned all the way down and Im getting 1.3 bar. When I switch to high boost turned up just a little bit Im getting 1.6bar which is plenty enuf for me on pump gas.

I would like to get my low boost a little bit lower like 1.0 bar but this isnt that big of a deal because I just have to stay off WOT.

The problem is this.. For some reason when I start the car I am getting exhaust gas coming out of the o2 dump tube immediately. Like while the car is idling I can hear the exhaust coming out the dump tube. I cant explain why its doing this as I really have no clue but it does it and then it stops and then it starts again and stops until I hold a steady throttle at which time it stops until I get on it and hit hard boost which it should dump it then. Someone said that maybe my wastegate isnt closing all the way but I dont know how to test that or fix it if thats the case?

Any suggestions?

 

[ILOSE]

Take the wastegate off. There is a circular stainless steel insert on the gate. If that thing us upsidedown, the gate will actually be open a little bit. That piece must be inserted the correct way to seal properly. But it can go either way.

Just take it off and look at the bootom of it. You will be able to tell immediatly if it is wrong. If so, just flip it. and you will see the difference.

 

[larryd]

why would that be wrong though.. the gate has never been opened before..

 

[Violater101]

I think he means assembled wrong from the factory. My money is something is wrong with the wg because it doens't seem like its closed all the way, hence you can hear the exhaust at idle.