To Hone or to Rebore Stock Block

[Deedster]

Alright guys/girls I have searched quite a bit on the faq and tuning guide as well as search these forums.. but i yet to answer my question directly. I am buying a eclipse gst I am not looking to spending all the money and have someone do all my work for me... that defeats the whole purpose of buying this project car. But what I am trying to do and figure out is the best way to go. The car has 200,000mi on it and supposively has about 80k on the motor previous owner claims that piston number 4 is shot, havent gotten a chance to tear it down the the bares to take a look at it yet, but i am going to start soon. But now the questions are:
89mm 83mm
hone is what you need... anypointers i should know if i do this because i dont have to rebore the cylinders
1. These blocks have to be honed correct? or can i get away with slidding a new piston/pistons in there if the cylinder sleaves look fine.

2. How much should it cost me just to hone the block?

3. Does anyone know who can do it in the chicago land area for pretty cheap... does ams do this?

Thanks
Raini

 

[1fast97gsx]

You won't know if you can get away with just a hone until you take it apart and look at it. I'd recommend just boring it and then honing it. Make sure a torque plate is used. I went to a shop called "APEX" out in bensenville ... about 10 minutes from AMS. I think I paid $220 for boring .020 over, honing, hot tank, and decking the block.

 

[pinknuggit]

i work at an engine remanufacturing facility, so i did mine for free.

But you can usually find a machine shop that will surface the deck of your block and hot tank it for pretty cheap. I think the going rate for honing at work is like 3$ a hole or something.

 

[gsxstac]

bore and hone. you never know what little imperfections there are in the cylinder walls, why take the chance? is this car gonna be driven around stock? or you plan on racing it? if you plan on racing it and your cutting corners in the block build then be prepared to have a dsm that breaks all the time. good luck

 

[percyo]

You won't know if you can get away with just a hone until you take it apart and look at it. I'd recommend just boring it and then honing it. Make sure a torque plate is used. I went to a shop called "APEX" out in bensenville ... about 10 minutes from AMS. I think I paid $220 for boring .020 over, honing, hot tank, and decking the block.

Did they use a torque plate to bore your engine?

 

[Defiant]

1. These blocks have to be honed correct? or can i get away with slidding a new piston/pistons in there if the cylinder sleaves look fine.

(Minor detail: you have no sleeves, just the cast cylinder wall.) When rebuilding an engine, the bores are measures for taper and out-of-round, and bored or honed accordingly. If bored, they are also honed.

 

[Deedster]

I am going to get some pictures up on here, I just got the head off now, and i am going to pull the piston and rod. I am a little new to dsms, can i pull this off with out pulling the engine?

Thanks
Raini

 

[Deedster]

here is the piston i believe it is considered the number one cylinder but like i said i dont know dsms that good... what are the numbers with the cylinders, this is the passanger side piston

thanks

http://home.comcast.net/~leitzaraini/P1010013.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~leitzaraini/P1010012.JPG

 

[Suparata]

That’s no. 4 and it doesn’t say much by just looking at it, but what does say something you should address is the corrosion in no. 3 which might give you troubles, even if the bores measure acceptable. Take a look at this http://www.engintecs.com/gallery/album14/020corrosion1 . That is a 4G63 that did not clean at .020” over and it was only because of corrosion. Yours might not be in that bad shape but it doesn’t look to be able to keep the stock size either.
You need to take it to the “doctor” to have it checked out then you’ll know for sure

 

[1fast97gsx]

You do have a lot of corrosion. I'd say bore .020 over and then hone. Why try and save like $75 or so now when it will cost you a lot more time and money to redo it later? Yes they used a torque plate on my block. NEVER machine it without a torque plate...

 

[Deedster]

now that i know the cylinders, the what looks to be corrosion was due to the prior owner not putting the plugs back in the car... I am trying to get the thing timed right, Im a little new at the whole dual over head cams but i am sure ill get the hang of it, just need to get the 1st piston to tdc, before i had cylinder 4.

thanks

 

[sonicnofadz]

Did you perform a compression test on the engine before you tore it all apart? This would have told more above the condition of the engine than looking at the tops of the pistons. If I were you I would have just bought a different car. The corrosion might be so deep in that one cylinder you may have to scrap the block altogether.

 

[ballagsx]

i am in the middle of a rebuild right now. when i took my engine apart it also had alot of rust, also due to the previous owner of the engine leaving the injectors and plugs out, 20 over took out all of the rust and cleened up the cylenders. seeing that there is rust at all and there being 80,000 miles on that rebuild you are probably going to need to bore you block.

 

[Deedster]

I cant get this car to start, something is wrong big time, i think the valves may be bent, I am looking for a new long block at the junk yards around here, if someone has one in good shape let me know

thanks
Raini

 

[ProjectTalon130]

When , if at all would we want to do a .30 bore over , i noticed ExtremePSI.com has pistons that come in both bore over sizes...most of you have .20....is .30 even needed or is that overkill? Thanks.

 

[terefic181]

Deedster,

The engine in the pix had 200,000k miles on it when I overhauled it, and set it up for the track. It was burning a little oil but no other problems. Upon checking things out it had a very slite amount of ridge, but this honed out nicely. All the cylinders were whithin specs in all directions, utilizing an inside caliper. All with an engine with 200,000k on it. So miles may not be a certain indicator, it depends on how it was taken care of.

To check your cylinders:

1st)

(Ridge is formed where the top of the rings stop their upward movement at {TDC} top dead center.) This ridge consist of a smaller diameter bore for the top say 1/2 " (wherever TDC is) of the cylinder wall and a larger diameter bore below this line (the larger diameter below is caused by the wear of the rings against the cylinder wall and the smaller upper diameter is left because the rings don't go that far up the cylinder, and therefore no wear. You can check this usually by runnig your fingernail up the cylinder wall and you can feel it. If you have a ridge that simple honing doesn't remove then the ridge needs a ridge runner used on it. This tool has blades on it and cuts this ridge back down till it's even with the lower portion of the wall, just by turning it by hand, with a wrench.

2nd)

You check the specs of the cylinder wall (the roundness of the bore and, the maximum diameter of he bore that standard rings will work with) against the spec sheet for your vehicle. This can be done utilizing an inside caliper for both these proceedures.

If the wall measurements are within spec. and a ridge is not a problem then you should be able to hone only, utilizing the cross hatch method (moving up and down the cylinder slowly with the hone turning at a moderate speed) the lines that you leave on the cylinder wall should be at about 45 degrees (I believe, check the specs). This cross hatching is necessary for the rings to seat properly.

3rd) Recheck all measurements again after honing to make sure you are still in spec.

Recap:
So you would need to check for a ridge. If you have one a simple honing or a ridge runner may do the job.

Check the specs on the cylinder wall. If these are off you will need to bore the block. The amount of this bore is the machinist's call unless you want him take a larger amount for horsepower reasons.

If you end up doing it all be sure to Re-check all specs to be sure.