Has anyone installed a Tial 38mm W/G on their exhaust mani?

[SpoOLxExO]

Before I actually get it welded up, I wanted to know if there is anyone running a similar setup.

Mounted directly off the number one runner, I will be dumping the waste back into the O2 housing which has been ported extensively, for cleanliness and lack of atmospheric wastegate sound. (Who the hell actually LIKES thier huge exhaust leak sound anyways?!? j/k)

Are there any inherent problems with this setup that someone knows about?

Comments?

Pics?

Thanks
Nick

P.S. This is on a 2g manifold, with a 14b turbo. Not a T3/T4 setup.

 

[Iceman]

There is no way you need a external setup for your 14b. Alright so say your going to upgrade you turbo thats fine but your setup is still stupid. Its stupid because mounting the wastegate on the number one runner well yeild lots of exh flow. Basicly the exh has the need to want to go two ways... Its bad .

 

[SpoOLxExO]

I'm sorry, maybe I should have clarified a little more.

Can someone with RELATIVE experience on the matter respond in a civil manner?

P.s. Look at GRNDSM's gallery. You will find a 14b with a Da-Ta-TAAA! External wastegate.

I didn't ask if YOU think it would be fine, I asked if anyone has gone off the number one runner, and plumbed back into the o2 housing without creep issues.

Thanks for boogering up my post....

 

[Iceman]

Okay so you want to use a external setup on a 14b... If thats the case than your and idiot who should give me there money so i can spend it on something worthwhile. GRNDSM is a idoit. Anyone that knows anythign well tell you its a waste of money and time. Its also eniffecnt (SP). Maybe you want to boost 30+PSI on the 14b hell i dunno but than i sappose you could go external setup. You still wouldn't want to run the external gate off of the number one runner though. Seriouslly think about and than think about it agian....

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Some help me, this is getting out of hand. Dirogitory comments, no hard evedence to back up the bench race talk.....

Gimme a break.

This is to CONTROLL boost with a 3" exhaust and for future turbo support, clown.


Besides, how good do you look, calling the 5th fastest DSM on this site,

"GRNDSM is a idiot"

WAY to play!

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by Iceman
Okay so you want to use a external setup on a 14b... If thats the case than your and idiot who should give me there money so i can spend it on something worthwhile. GRNDSM is a idoit. Anyone that knows anythign well tell you its a waste of money and time. Its also eniffecnt (SP). Maybe you want to boost 30+PSI on the 14b hell i dunno but than i sappose you could go external setup. You still wouldn't want to run the external gate off of the number one runner though. Seriouslly think about and than think about it agian....

2 things.

1) Please stop attacking site members.
2) It's spelled "I-D-I-O-T".

Originally posted by Iceman
This is to CONTROLL boost with a 3" exhaust and for future turbo support, clown.

Will it work off the #1 runner? Yes. The better place would be off the collector.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I deleted the last post,

Don't post off-topic in this thread again.

P.S. Sean, you said please :laugh:

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Thats all I needed to know!

I do see alot of people running Externals off their manifold, but they ususally dump to atmosphere.

Thats where the technical part of my question regards; Will it creep/spike when I plum the wastegate to vent into a ported 1st gen O2 housing, and 3" turbo back?

Thanks for the real responses!

 

[GRNDSM]

Thanks for a vote of confidence, Icemen… You are violating a few rules with your comments, consider this a WARNING!

The external WG is installed on my O2 housing, since that is the housing that I use on my car, EVERY TD05 flanged turbo will have it. It so happens that I had on the 14b, I would never recommend such mod to anyone.

Most people who have tried routing WG tapped in the manifold/header back into the down pipe, did not have much luck with it. I am not sure what it is, maybe the long tube after the WG, but they do just do not tend to work well (creep).

On the other hand, WG’s mounted on the O2 housings with very short return tubes, seem to work much better. HRC has found that formula in the mid 90’s and since then, many have followed their lead.

But since 38mm WG is much larger than what you need on this turbo, just about any installation should do the trick .

Leon
RR

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by L2RTSiAWD

P.S. Sean, you said please :laugh:

What can I say? I am tired. :thumbdown

Originally posted by SpoOLxExO
Thats where the technical part of my question regards; Will it creep/spike when I plum the wastegate to vent into a ported 1st gen O2 housing, and 3" turbo back?

So you are fitting a true 3" turbo back to a 2.25" 1G O2 housing AND figuring out a way to reroute the external wastegate back into the O2 housing? Have a lot of spare time on your hands?

Save yourself the time and trouble and buy a tubular o2 housing that already has everything set for rerouting an external in, including the wastegate mounting.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Why buy, when you can make it!?!

Besides, I do not want to put a true 3" o2 eliminator on a 14b with a 2.25" outlet as you noted, not worth the 5-6-7 hundred bucks to me to get that setup.

I made my own exhaust with the help of a DSM 3" downpipe from a.... lets just say "certain" dsm shop.

I also recieved a Tial 38mm gate for my birthday. It was a nice present to get, and I wanna utilize it with out dropping loot on a o2 elim-housing.

I kinda like the cast-exhast idea too, as it will all be covered up in heat shields, so it will look almost factory.

Just a short flange off the manifold, pointing downward, with the outlet of the waste gate going directly into the o2 housing.
Everything ported, and a 3" turbo back. Thats the setup.
Basically, a cast iron version of an o2 eliminator with external flanges. I'll take Leons word and say it wont creep on the 14b, for now....

I also wanted to do it this way, so I can upgrade to a hybrid Tdo5 turbo (20g, frank series, PTE, etc) that might need an External gate, with-out upgrading twice, as thats my mantra in this DSM project, only buy stuff once.

Thanks for the civil manner in which most of you respond!

 

[jmc94gsx]

I have a Tial 38mm, off the #1 runner, and routed back into the a ATR 02 housing so it's something along the lines you are asking about. I have not had a problem with boostcreep (17 psi street and 24 psi track) and the length of my dumptube is approximately 7 inches.

As said before this is not very optimal, if I were to do it again I would place it off of the O2 housing. But I originally modified the manifold in 2000 when taking it off the manifold was more common and acceptable....it will work.

To be honest for a street car I like this a lot better than an external dump, my main exhaust tone sounds cooler as well.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Can I ask what turbo you are running that 17-22 psi with?

Also, did you modify your ATR housing, or did it come configured with the dump prior to ordering it?

And yeah, the only reason I'm doin it off the mani, is that I got the 2g mani for free, but it had some ugly spot welds in it. I figure setting up the wastegate in this manner will give me the most cost effective option for both boost control, and support for a bigger turbo, all while keeping my cast iron exhast pieces, and the cost low.

You also say that your return tube is about 7inches in length. Where does that reach on your exhaust system? I mean, where does it dump into, your down pipe? Is it near the initial bend?

 

[kpt4321]

I just wanted to add a couple things:

If you're cutting a hole in the manifold and welding an external gate on, you want to use the collector area (I think Tev hit on this already). It's a better location to use, and if you're building from scratch then I don't see why NOT to use it.

Second of all, be VERY careful welding the flange (what material is it?) to your old DSM manifold. It could be interesting.

This is how Kevin Jewer's setup looks, which is on of my favorites:

http://www.posracing.net/files/car_013.jpg

 

[jmc94gsx]

1. Big 16G
2. Fabrication was necessary, the ATR had to be modified
3. It dumps into the O2 housing. The tube runs about 1/2" above the O2 housing's flange, the tubing is a little over a 90 degree bend (started with a 180 deg. bend)

If you are planning on routing it to the o2 housing I wouldn't waste my time with a 1G housing.

 

[Emcee gsxtc]

I have, lets say a frankenstein turbo, but I routed my 40 MM Tial Sport WG of the 02 housing, I have heard of problems with the other way, never seen it done with stock turbo tho, its pretty easy to weld a flange on the 02 housing. Good Luck!

 

[DSMJim]

Not sure if this helps however I have a Turbonetics manifold and my Tial comes right off #1 runner and dumps back into my downpipe (made my own 3" O2 eliminator downpipe)

This setup controls boost very nicely and I can go from spring pressure, 10psi, way upto 25psi with no creep problems at all. As a matter of fact, I have an electronic boost controller (HKS EVC) and can turn the manual knob while driving up and down and watch my boost change from 10-20psi back and forth while holding hard on the gas, pretty funny to feel the car surging as the boost changes ...

The other good thing is that it's quiet and no hassle from the police..

Here is what you need to know:

When you do weld it up remember that it's hard welded to your O2 housing which is off the back of the turbo, so you MUST bolt everything down tight as if it was installed before you weld. Weld it all up and don't loosen anything off. As a weld cools it will move a bit. If you weld it on the table it will never line up with the wastegate afterwards. You must let it cool naturally to room temperature completly bolted together to make SURE that it will line up 100%. Remember your making an exhaust piece that now bolts up to two completly different places so it has to be perfect or it wont fit. Have a look at my pic below for reference.

Say anything about my crappy welding and I'll cut ur nutz off.. (I suck at welding but I made my own exahust end to end so there ) I did grind it all down and paint it so it now looks pimp, but that was raw.. Anyway...

 

[SpoOLxExO]

That is exactly what I'm am goin for. That same setup. Although your 3" turbine discharge is slightly different from a 2.25" 1g o2 housing.

Can I get away with the 1g O2 housing if its hogged out as much as possible?

also can i route the W/G in via a shorter piece of tubing to get it more compact, or will I need at least a 7" extention or something to that effect?

 

[SpoOLxExO]

On top of this project, I came across a deal I just couldnt pass up.

A "In the wrapper" brand new Frank 2 for $500

So now my setup is in need of the wastegate attachment, wow dontcha LOVE getting the hookup on upgrades!?

All I need is some injectors, and a FMIC to be a real contender!

:Giggling with girlish excitment!

Thanks for the setup pics and all the response.

I just kinda hoped that someone has the same setup as I A.k.a. utilizing the cast exhast pieces for the setup.

Anybody?

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by SpoOLxExO
That is exactly what I'm am goin for. That same setup. Although your 3" turbine discharge is slightly different from a 2.25" 1g o2 housing.

Can I get away with the 1g O2 housing if its hogged out as much as possible?

also can i route the W/G in via a shorter piece of tubing to get it more compact, or will I need at least a 7" extention or something to that effect?

I'm sure you probablly can but if your going to make up all that other piping why not just get a flange for the back of your turbo and make it all up like I did? It's not that hard really then you don't need to worry about it at all. How long the dump tube is will primarily depend on where it's going. I wanted mine to slope into the exhaust easily and not cause a restriction which is why it ended up like that.

Honestly I prefer to make up all my own stuff vs. messing around with part aftermarket part OE stuff. If im going to do it custom, the whole thing is getting done then I can make it just how I want. Now pulling off my downpipe is a piece of cake because of how I built it. I'm a DIY type of person.

 

[so-slow]

Originally posted by kpt4321


This is how Kevin Jewer's setup looks, which is on of my favorites:

http://www.posracing.net/files/car_013.jpg

I beleive that set up may be for sale

http://www.posracing.net/ForSale.html