Mitsubishi Diesel Engine

[Morphius]

Mitsubishi made a 2.5L 4cyl that was sold in the Mazda B2200/2600, Mighty Max/D50. Has anyone ever thought (or seen) someone use it in a performance application?

The good:
Torque monster!!
Cheaper fuel
Endless amount of boost you could push through it.
Propane injection
It'd respond to IC and turbo upgrades like a ICE.
Longer life

The bad:
Availability period? where to get them?
Aftermarket parts? not sure......
Low rpm engine


Potential upgrades:
DOHC head?
Cams
Exhaust manifold
Injectors
Intake manifold
Turbo
Intercooler
High flow pump


Thoughts anyone? If I only had the time....... wouldn't this make a wild swap into a DSM?

 

[Morphius]

Hmmm..... lots of views but no thoughts from anyone.

Does anyone know what block it is based on? The G54B, G63B,4G63, or 4G64?

Anyone know if a 4G63 head will bolt on a G63B block?

 

[Morphius]

Alright, what I've uncovered so far.

There are 2 variants.

4D55 2.3L
4D56 2.5L

The JDM version is turbo charged.

If anyone knows of someone who has one of these dinasaurs laying around, please pass their contact info on to me.

Thanks

 

[Defiant]

I smell trouble brewing.....

 

[Morphius]

Trouble in the form of.......

4D55 block (2.3L) *
DOHC head
Turbo cams
Turbo exhaust housing
Holset turbo off a cummins diesel pushing 50 psi
Upgraded injectors
Upgraded injection pump
And a powerstroke intercooler

*Still need to aquire

Evil in a different form.

 

[Defiant]

This is going to do nothing but cost you money and peeve the wife.

And you need the money.

 

[Morphius]

Originally posted by Defiant
This is going to do nothing but cost you money and peeve the wife.

And you need the money.

First, I'm single, so no nagging better half.

Two, the 74+ hours I put in last week just paid for this project. I need a good challange and I'm highly curious on the potential that could come from this.

Hardest part is coming up with a motor. They weren't that common.

 

[i550]

Originally posted by Morphius
Hardest part is coming up with a motor. They weren't that common.

Look for the oddball engines sharing the 4g footprint in forklifts and other light duty equipment.

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by i550
Look for the oddball engines sharing the 4g footprint in forklifts and other light duty equipment.

Ooo. Echos of Datsun Roadster!

 

[pradamike]

dude do it that would be the coolest thing ever in the world

 

[wishihadatalon]

this sounds like it would be cool. hey are you going to the xceed bbq morphius? would like to meet you sometime.

 

[Hooptytalon]

The 4D56 is IDI as opposed to Direct Injection I assume? I believe DI diesels run a little cleaner, harder and sound cooler.
RPM wouldn't be much of a problem with the proper Injection Pump tuning ( i've seen Cummins B5.9s run 4000-5000 rpm pulling sleds)
Do you know what type of injection pump they have?
I think an HX-40 with a 16cm exhaust housing would a bit laggy, they are when swapped on Dodge p/u.
I'm sure you could find someone to extrude hone and flow match the injectors.
Why a PowerJoke intercooler?



Edit: check this site it might help
http://www.l200.org.uk/indexhtml.htm

 

[Morphius]

Originally posted by Hooptytalon
The 4D56 is IDI as opposed to Direct Injection I assume? I believe DI diesels run a little cleaner, harder and sound cooler.

I think you are right. I think that might be the defining difference between the Cummings and the Powerstroke/Duramax. Cummins is louder and resembles a big rig. I also think the DI sounds better.

Originally posted by Hooptytalon
RPM wouldn't be much of a problem with the proper Injection Pump tuning ( i've seen Cummins B5.9s run 4000-5000 rpm pulling sleds)
Do you know what type of injection pump they have?

I'll be receiving my technical manuals soon, but from what I've seen and read so far, I beleive they have a mechanical pump that runs off the crank like a distributor. Cummins is currenlty running a engine mounted electronic pump. Injection is controlled by the ECU. They are changing to a tank mounted pump soon.

If I try and stick with the stock injector pump, upgrading might be difficult. If I do a hybrid system and go with a standalone, upgraded stock style pump, and some 800cc or higher injectors, I might pull it off. Or I was thinking about integrating the injectors off a Cummins. I could either use the stock injector location (IDI) or , if I try to go to a DOHC head, I could mount the injectors in the sparkplug hole to make it DI.

Originally posted by Hooptytalon
I think an HX-40 with a 16cm exhaust housing would a bit laggy, they are when swapped on Dodge p/u.

Probably laggy, but once it spools, GOD SPEED.

Originally posted by Hooptytalon
I'm sure you could find someone to extrude hone and flow match the injectors.

That or just buy a larger set.

Originally posted by Hooptytalon
Why a PowerJoke intercooler?

I already have one, so here would be a perfect chance to use it. An NPR style one would be easier to fit.

 

[Morphius]

Originally posted by wishihadatalon
this sounds like it would be cool. hey are you going to the xceed bbq morphius? would like to meet you sometime.

I may. Largely depends on if I'm around. May 1st right? This is right around pilot builds (ie early 2005 production builds). I may be in one of three places: Warren Truck Assembly Plant (WTAP), Saltillo Truck Assembly Plant (STAP) in mexico or St. Louis North Assembly Plant (SLNAP).

 

[Morphius]

How high can you spin a 2.4L? Can you run them like a 4G63? Anyone?



RPM wise I'd say the 4D55/56 would be like running a 2.4L.

 

[wishihadatalon]

i believe my friends spyder gs revs up to 6k. that has the 4g64.

also the bbq is on the 18th of may

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Morphius
RPM wise I'd say the 4D55/56 would be like running a 2.4L.

Are they torque monsters? It might just run off and hide, laughing all the way. Make it a magazine article, and get some money back on it.

 

[chrisAWD]

I really think you'll be extremely disapointed with the results of a diesel motor buildup. Diesel's are not designed for high hp. They are designed for low end torque and fuel economy. If you do this you'll end up with a low hp, low revving dog.

 

[Morphius]

Originally posted by chrisAWD
I really think you'll be extremely disapointed with the results of a diesel motor buildup. Diesel's are not designed for high hp. They are designed for low end torque and fuel economy. If you do this you'll end up with a low hp, low revving dog.

Good comment and point......

To start, I have most of what I need to do this lying around. The primary component missing is a motor. They're on the rare side.
I realize that compared to a 4G63 (or equivlent), the level of HP won't be there. However, if you start stripping it of it's restricted parts (ie exhaust, intake, head). Next, you bolt on a DOHC head, a matching 1g intake and a full 3" turbo-back it should open things up a bit. The motor will breathe so much better.

You throw on a turbo pushing 30-50psi, a large intercooler, some big injectors and maybe propane injection and it'll be pushing some good power. I'll go as far as to say, it'll hit 300hp (or more) if.......... if I can get the injection setup correctly and that will be the tricky part.

Stroke is going to be about the same as a 4G64 motor. So, who says you can't run it to 6K safely? I've only heard good things come from the 4G64 buildups. Granted it's a gas engine, but the lower RPM doesn't seem to bother most.

So, it's an experiment in process. If it works well, then cool. If not, then now I know. Five years ago, you probably would have been laughed at for thinking about building a 4G64, but now it's commonplace.

Until someone breaks new ground and trys it, the term it can't be done means nothing.

 

[BoostinAWD]

I think its a badass idea. turbo diesel dsm
300hp and what 1000lb/ft of torque

 

[chrisAWD]

Originally posted by Morphius
Good comment and point......

To top it off, they weren't turbocharged (except JDM version). So, you throw on a turbo pushing 30-50psi, a large intercooler, some big injectors and maybe propane injection and it'll be pushing some good power. I'll go as far as to say, it'll hit 300hp (or more) if.......... if I can get the injection setup correctly and that will be the tricky part.

Stroke is going to be about the same as a 4G64 motor. So, who says you can't run it to 6K safely? I've only heard good things come from the 4G64 buildups. Granted it's a gas engine, but the lower RPM doesn't seem to bother most.

So, it's an experiment in process. If it works well, then cool. If not, then now I know. Five years ago, you probably would have been laughed at for thinking about building a 4G64, but now it's commonplace.

Until someone breaks new ground and trys it, the term it can't be done means nothing.

Even if your right and you get 300hp, the torque your gonna be producing will be ridiculous, and I really don't think the AWD drivetrain will like that. Youll probably be replacing tranny's once a month.

and as far as the rev limit thing, diesels are not low rpm engines because of long strokes, they are low rpm engines by default of the way a diesel engine works. Its the nature of the process of controlled self ignited combustion process.

Think of it this way to.....your right about 5 years ago people would've laughed at the 64, BUT, people have been swapping bigger motors into cars since the 30's. So the 64 just was waiting. however, have you EVER heard of someone swapping a diesel into a car to GAIN performance? There is a reason.

 

[ImportWarrior]

i have seen 2.6 starion engines rev to 7K and higher

 

[chrisAWD]

ITS NOT THE DISPLACEMENT of the motor that will limit revs. I'm talking gasoline vs diesel. not 2.0 vs 2.6

 

[hellotbone]

Ok Im a bit of a Diesel Guru I make over 600 RWHP dyno'd on my 5.9L cummins in my Dodge Pickup.

Diesel is a wonderful HP application but there are tradeoff's first will be SMOKE to make HP with a diesel there will always be smoke lots of thick black sooty smoke.

Second is a tranny to handle the torque they put out my truck puts out just shy of 1200 FT lbs which is hard to tame many have not seen a diesel daulie light up all 4 wheels for 3 gears I can.

So the possibilities are limitless really stay away from propane on a diesel though its highly unliked in the diesel world if you look around N2O is much more liked. Also if you are gonna spray it the turbo's take a beating I know this because I exploded an hx 40 holset turbo on the N20 so that is an issue. Head gaskets are as well with high boost levels we run 60 PSI in the trucks and twin turbo guys run over 100 PSI so holding that head on is a chore too. You will be able to make huge HP with that engine it would be best off for you if you can get one with manual injecton rather then ECU controlled as there is probably no chip from them available and the manual pumps can be turned up quite a bit. If you get it I have a very good friend that can extrude hone the injectors to flow more he is located in TX. He also produces EDM injectors for cummins Diesels. Your probably going to end up around 30 PSI in that car if you get it all said and done Diesels also like huge intercoolers so make sure and have FMIC in place. If you need any help shoot me a PM I can gather as much info as possible on it.

 

[Morphius]

First just a note, I do appreciate everyone's comments. If I do come across abrubt, it's not intended.

Originally posted by chrisAWD
Even if your right and you get 300hp, the torque your gonna be producing will be ridiculous, and I really don't think the AWD drivetrain will like that. Youll probably be replacing tranny's once a month.

The torque maybe extremely high. But then, Shepard is putting down at least 600 ft lbs. I'd be giddy if I hit that!! I likely wouldn't drag it. Well, except for maybe the occasional street kill.

Originally posted by chrisAWD
and as far as the rev limit thing, diesels are not low rpm engines because of long strokes, they are low rpm engines by default of the way a diesel engine works. Its the nature of the process of controlled self ignited combustion process.

I disagree. Ever thought about why diesels make so much torque? 9 times out of ten, then have a longer stroke than a compareable gas engine. How do you increase torque in a gas engine? Stroke it. With the added stroke you have to worry about the increased piston slap due to added side loading and the increased piston/rod angles. I love the 4G63, but grew up on V8's. Ever run a 283 or 327 chevy engine. You can buzz those things to 8K or more due to the short stroke. Move to a 454 or 502, you start pushing things at 7K. Stroke has everything to do with it.

Originally posted by chrisAWD
Think of it this way to.....your right about 5 years ago people would've laughed at the 64, BUT, people have been swapping bigger motors into cars since the 30's. So the 64 just was waiting. however, have you EVER heard of someone swapping a diesel into a car to GAIN performance? There is a reason.

Yep. Every watch speedboat racing? How about the unlimited class (or whatever you call it)? You'll find 7 of the top 10 teams are using diesel engines. It's been about a year since I caught a race, but if I recall, they are pushing in excess of 1500hp...... on each engine. And they run two!!! Those things are making UNGODLY torque. The gas engine are V12's from Lamborgini. And you'll find, The diesels are on top. They are the engine of choice for the winning teams.