91 TSI 5-speed has been sitting for 3-4 years

[Street Reaper]

My wife's first car has been sitting and doing nothing for the past 3-4 years. It is a 91 Talon Turbo AWD 5-speed. Knowing the potentials of this car, being a tuning enthusiast for years, and having a friends who are advanced DSM tuners, or Mitsu Techs I am going to take it (for free ). The transmission is gone and thus the car has not been started for 3-4 years. Any kind of work to be done on this car can be performed by me and friends so costs should be kept pretty low (I am selling my supercharger set up from my Maxima to get the project in motion and using the Max as a daily driver, the Talon will be all project.)

My goal to start with is 400 whp, but being that it can sit and not have to be a daily driver I will eventually be looking towards 600 whp. Now for my questions. Of course the first thing that I am going to do is change the battery, change the oil (the timing belt was changed at 100,000) and do a compression test. The car has 120,000 miles and like I said has been sitting for an extended period of time. I am up in the air about the transmission. I can get a used one for about $700 but wonder if I should just buy a built transmission instead (opinions on where to get it?) Also to start out with of course I want this little toy up and running quick. With 400 whp is it needed to swap the 3 bolt rear end with a 4 bolt, I am guessing it would be for 500-600whp?? Are their any other suggestions on preping a DSM that has been sitting for an extended period of time, I am anticipating that at least the lifters will need to be replaced as with most DSM's (any other advice? I can tear apart the block and clean everything if needed.) This car will not be abused at the track (only occasional runs) and will be more of a weekend warrior and just somthing to play with. I also live in Oklahoma where there are no vehicle inspections (any advice on exhausts, intake manifolds, etc. is also greatly appreciated.) I understand that the 6 bolt motors are very sought after and even things such as the throttle bodies, heads etc. of these cars are top notch. I am really looking forward to having a dediticated project car, especially one with so much potential. Thanks in advance for any responses.

P.S. I did search, if anyone can point me to links of these questions that would also be appreciated.

 

[GSXanimal]

If it has been sitting that long you will probably have a few oil leaks from dried up seals and gaskets, also get rid of whatever gas is in the tank, and yes 4 bolt. good luck

 

[boostedtalon]

Let me tell you this. . .you are in for some serious work. my car sat for 1 year before I bought it. . and holy sh-t I replaced alot of things, just a quick rundown. . .

Brakes (calipers and all rubber lines), radiator, all filters, all belts (timing especially) various Hoses (pretty much anything rubber), fuel tank (for some reason it is a split design and has a gasket), all fluids (a given), tune up stuff (also a given) and a glove box (stupid mouse).

I am sure I am forgetting things but I am sure you get the idea, finally now after all that I am finally adding mods, and the car is great.

Good Luck,

BoostedTalon

P.S. Buy the race trans now, because after a few 400hp runs you will be buying a new one anyway

 

[Street Reaper]

Originally posted by boostedtalon
Let me tell you this. . .you are in for some serious work. my car sat for 1 year before I bought it. . and holy sh-t I replaced alot of things, just a quick rundown. . .

Brakes (calipers and all rubber lines), radiator, all filters, all belts (timing especially) various Hoses (pretty much anything rubber), fuel tank (for some reason it is a split design and has a gasket), all fluids (a given), tune up stuff (also a given) and a glove box (stupid mouse).

I am sure I am forgetting things but I am sure you get the idea, finally now after all that I am finally adding mods, and the car is great.

Good Luck,

BoostedTalon

P.S. Buy the race trans now, because after a few 400hp runs you will be buying a new one anyway

Thanks for all the replies and please keep them coming. I was actually looking forward to replacing a lot of parts. I want this car to be better than new before I start with the mods (which is the first goal.) I also have the dealer hook up so little parts will be cheap if not free. Add to that the number of friends that love DSM's (especially the potential of a first gen, I can even use an extra bay with a lift at a local dealership and all their tools if I so desire) and my constant need to work on cars (I take apart my max often to inspect things even when they are not broken) and you have a great formula for fun. I have pretty conservative expecations for this car and plan on working on it for at least half a year before I even register it to be driven. It will probably be another half before I race it.

Now I just have to pry it away from the in laws. Her mom wants to use it as a daily driver work car :thumbdown which she has said for quite some time. I want to slap that woman

No worries, I am confident that I will get it. No way is she going to want to replace everything that is being mentioned. The more ideas of things to replace the better the chances of me getting it so keep them coming. I am going to go ahead and add a 2G header to the list (but won't tell her that the 1G shouldn't crack without mods as it has been known to do.)

 

[out there]

well, it might be a little steep for you at this time, and maybe even completely outside your (budget ) scope of the car's future... but perhaps you'd consider a magnus trannsmission? http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/productdetails.asp?CategoryID=3&SubID=6&CatalogueID=102
just a thought

 

[ITSME4G63]

http://www.teamrip.com/ has tranmission goodies for your desire for a price though, it aint cheap !!
http://www.shepracing.com/ will rebuild yours for 800-900$

 

[Groomz]

Looks like you will have the tranny covered. For power ( especially 600whp ) you will need a few things. Here's what my dream setup would require:

9:1 Wiseco stroker pistons
Crower rods
Clevite 77 bearings
4G64 crank
HKS 272s w/ Crower springs
Magnus SMIM
Dejon Tool Race FMIC w/ blowthrough
AEM EMS
950cc/min injectors
Nippondenso Supra pump
Mitsu metal HG w/ all ARP hardware
Derale oil cooler
Moroso oil pan
aluminum driveshaft
M&H slicks w/ wheels
Kaaz LSDs
DNP Mitsu tubular manifold
FP3065 BB turbo ( maybe bigger, but its a nice turbo 650hp )
Fluidyne radiator
NX 50hp wet shot nitrous kit
Buschur COP w/ Iridiums or NGKs
AEM CDI ignition
AEM UEGO kit
Clutchmasters FX700 clutch kit

Now that you are living at the drag strip broke and alone, you can sell your sleeping bag for some race fuel and wonder aloud if you can pull another low 10 second ET without nitrous. Have fun!

 

[out there]

can the supra pump really flow enough for 600whp?

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by out there
can the supra pump really flow enough for 600whp?

I've read 500whp, but it is an excellent pump. You may be pusing it, but its definitely better than the Walbro units.

 

[splattj]

Most people making 600whp have a fuel cell and an external pump, so for the first stage of the project get the cheaper Walbro 255 and do the fuel pump rewire. http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html has all sorts of good stuff. I would change EVERY fluid in the car. Brake, power steering, motor oil, transfer case oil, rear diff. oil, clutch hydraulic, coolant. Most cars are overdue for these BEFORE they sit. Yours has been sitting for years. Of course, it would be wise to buy all your parts first as you will have to change many of the fluids in the process. Ah, the joy of project cars.

 

[Street Reaper]

Thanks for all the replies, I put this together off the top of my head and know that there is quite a bit missing (feel free to fill in the gaps or make suggestions as DSM tuning is still some what new to me.)

91 Eagle Talon TSI 5-Speed

Goal – Reliable Performance that is versatile on the strip or highway.

Stage 1 – Getting car back to working order

“to be determined” = part manufacturer has yet to be decided

-Replace Transmission (TeamRip built transmission, Shift Kit (to be determined)
-4 Bolt Rear End
-Replace Turbo (see below)
-Replace all Gaskets (to be determined)
-Replace all Seals (to be determined)
-Replace Motor Mounts
-Ignition Plug Wire Set (to be determined)
-Replace all Rubber Hoses (to be determined)
-Remove Gas from Gas Tank
-Replace Gas Tank (to be determined)
-Replace Brake Calipers and all Rubber lines (upgraded brake kit)
-Replace Radiator (Fluidyne, and 13 inch Spal Radiator fan while your at it)
-Replace all Filters (to be determined)
-Replace all Belts (to be determined)
-Replace Timing Belt (to be determined)
-Replace all Fluids (to be determined)
-Compression Check – (motor is getting built either way).
-EGT and Boost Gauge
-Oil Cooler (maybe dual filter relocator kit)


Stage II – The Fun Begins - Engine, Intake, and Exhaust

-Intake (to be determined)
-FMIC (to be determined)
-Forced Performance FP-30 Turbo (series yet to be determined)
-Tial Wastegate
-HKS SS BOV
-Extrude Honed Intake Manifold (bigger throttle body than the stock 62mm?)
-Ported Head
-Oversized Valves (to be determined)
-Crower springs
-Titanium retainers
-Wiseco or Ross Pistons
-Crower or Eagle Rods
-Clevite rod bearings
-Clevite main bearings
-ARP rod bolts
-4G64 Crank
-HKS 272 Cams (Cam gears?)
-Balance Shaft Removal Kit
-Ported 2g Exhaust Manifold
-3inch Turbo Back Exhaust


Stage III – Feeding the Beast

-Walbro 255 Fuel Pump
-AEM FPR
-AEM Fuel Rail
-DSM 850cc FIC High Flow Fuel Injectors
-GReddy e-01

-Off to the Dyno

Stage IV – Brakes and Suspension
-Koni Yellow Struts
-Eibach Pro Kit
-Camber Correction Kit
-Front Strut Bar (to be determined)
-Rear Strut Bar (to be determined)
-Brake Kit (to be determined)

Stage V- Cosmetics
-Replace Front Bumper from a salvage yard (slightly damaged)
-Repaint Pearl White (original color) and Repaint Roof and Spoiler Black (original color)
-18 inch Deep Chrome Wheels (yes too heavy but wheels make the car, to be determined)
- Tires, I really like Nitto 555's for all around tires (let the flames roll)

Stage VI – File for Bankruptcy
- Have fun with the car

 

[Groomz]

You'll need some sort of fuel control. A DSMchips.com and S-AFCII combo would work well.

 

[Street Reaper]

Originally posted by Groomz
You'll need some sort of fuel control. A DSMchips.com and S-AFCII combo would work well.

I thought the Greddy e-01 was not only a data logger, but also had the properties of the emanage piggy back fuel controller?

 

[splattj]

You're thinking about Greddy e-Manage. The e-01 is a really fancy boost controller.

 

[Street Reaper]

Originally posted by splattj
You're thinking about Greddy e-Manage. The e-01 is a really fancy boost controller.

I was getting my information from the tuning guide on this sight.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/parts/product_info.php?cPath=2_125&products_id=716

Looks like I will go back to the drawing board on the fuel managment, thanks. I'll check out Groomz's suggestion.

 

[splattj]

Yeah, you can use it to change settings on the eManage, which would be the fuel controller.

 

[Street Reaper]

OK I came back to reality and this is the plan so far. If you have any suggestions please advise. Some parts I have yet to find specifically what I want (such as the turbo) and others I have found where to get them (hence the listed price.) I am trying to get to a reliable 500hp as affordably as possible (however again reliability takes prefference over affordability.) If there are any parts missing that you would throw in please let me know, if there are any parts that I could do without please let me know.

91 Eagle Talon TSI 5-Speed
Goal – 500hp that is quick on the strip and the highway

Engine
-Replace all Gaskets and Seals $199.00
-Replace all Belts and Pulley’s $275.00
-Ignition Wires- NGK $40.00
-Spark Plugs – NGK Colder $10.00
-Ross Pistons $409.00
-ARP rod bolts $38.00
-Clevite rod bearings $30.00
-Clevite main bearings $75.00
-Balance Shaft Eliminator $42.00
-Oil Cooler
-New Oil Pan $165.00
-Polyurithane Motor Mounts Buddy Deal
-Replace all Rubber Hoses
-Battery

Filters
-OEM Oil Filter- OEM
-OEM Fuel Filter $33.00

Fluids
-Oil - Castrol GTX (for break in) then Mobil One Synthetic
-Transmission - BG Syncro Shift (Road Race) $29.00
-Brake
-Power Steering
-Coolant

Cooling
-Radiator (Fluidyne) $350.00
-Radiator Hoses
-Radiator Cap $14.00
-Thermostat $12.00
-Spal Fan (1360cfm) $110.00

Intake
-Extrude Honed Intake Manifold $375.00
-3 inch 1G Intake Pipe $84.00
-3 inch Upper Pipe for GM Translator $159.00
-K&N Filter

Turbo
-Forced Performance
-FMIC $950.00
-40mm Tial Wastegate $355.00
-HKS SS BOV Buddy Deal
-Ported 2g Exhaust Manifold (external wastegate)

Exhaust
-3’ O2 Housing
-3’ Down Pipe
-3’ Race Pipe
-3’ Cat Back

Gauges
-EGT
-Boost Gauge
-Dual A-Pillar Pod

Fuel and Tuning
-New Gas Tank
-Walbro 255 Fuel Pump Kit $95.00
-Fuel Lines from Pump-Filter
-AEM FPR
-AEM Fuel Rail
-Fuel Lines from Pump to Filter
-Fuel Lines from Filter to FPR
-660cc Fuel Injectors
-GM 3’ MAF
-GM Translator

Transmission
-Built Transmission $2,400
-Transmission Axle Seals $16.00
-Shift Kit
-ACT 2600 $385.00
-4 Bolt Rear End
-Amsoil Gear Lube $8.97

Suspension
-Struts
-Eibach Pro Kit
-Camber Correction Kit
-Front Strut Bar
-Rear Strut Bar

Brakes
-Brake Kit
-Brake Lines $115.00

Cosmetics
-Front Bumper
-Repaint Entire Car
-18 inch Wheels/Tires

 

[splattj]

I would recommend using a SAFC with the GM MAF translator. 500hp without any adjustments is going to be pretty hard. You'll also want to get your hands on a datalogger. You can probably delete the 3 inch 1G Intake Pipe and the 3 inch Upper Pipe for GM Translator because you'll be wanting the short route piping for the FMIC. You'll only have to make minor changes to make a coupler in the piping as it's pretty straight in a couple places. You're also going to have to make a flange for the BOV.

 

[Street Reaper]

Originally posted by splattj
I would recommend using a SAFC with the GM MAF translator. 500hp without any adjustments is going to be pretty hard. You'll also want to get your hands on a datalogger. You can probably delete the 3 inch 1G Intake Pipe and the 3 inch Upper Pipe for GM Translator because you'll be wanting the short route piping for the FMIC. You'll only have to make minor changes to make a coupler in the piping as it's pretty straight in a couple places. You're also going to have to make a flange for the BOV.

A local DSM tuner had told me the GM MAF and translator would be all I would need to tune my fuel.

I also read that here
http://www.dsmparts.com/maf_translator.htm

If that is wrong then I will probably go with a 2G MAF and a SAFC, is the GM translator not a fuel tuning system as is stated in the link?

Thanks for your help.

 

[splattj]

A MAFT is a tuning tool but there are five potentiometers to tune with. If you want to change anything you have to pull over and pop the hood. It's a bit of a pain. Even on the dyno, the tech can't just reach over and press a button or two they have to get out, etc. The MAFT is a nice step up from the 2G MAF as you can use the GM airmeter (which you have to buy seperately) it would be fine if you had a small turbo and lower power goals. The trim knobs in the translator box don't allow for very flexible tuning. If you're trying to repeatedly and reliably make 500whp you'll need better tuning tools than that. The other problem you'll see is that the frequency output of an AFC or MAF translator will be very low when you move to the injector size you'll need for 500hp. This will result in too much timing advance because the factory computer will be in the wrong part of the timing map due to the lower frequency. You can fool the computer with an AFC or translator but it won't be right. Piggybacks worked really well when people were running 550cc injectors with a big 16G. Now with cheap 50 trims and 850cc ball style injectors there are more problems. I would suggest looking at http://www.dsmchips.com because they can properly compensate for bigger injectors. That combined with an AFC is probably the most affordable way to go. Most people that have put 500+ whp down have had Haltec, Motec, AEM EMS, or VPCs. Don't get me wrong, you can make good power with piggyback ECUs but for a daily driven car it's just a bit more challenging. Just a hint, if you go with the piggyback solution you might want to dial back the base timing a few degrees.

 

[Colossus]

Send the Transmission to John Sheperd.

www.shepracing.com


Excellent work, excellent speed, racing prep, and will fix any other problems not included in his prep.

 

[Street Reaper]

Originally posted by Colossus
Send the Transmission to John Sheperd.

www.shepracing.com


Excellent work, excellent speed, racing prep, and will fix any other problems not included in his prep.

I looked on his sight and couldn't really tell how much I could get a built transmission for? The TRE transmission that can handle 500hp is 2100 if I send them my old tranny. I say 500hp crank hp because I will be a little below that number and want somthing reliable, as long as I have a little over 400whp I will be happy.

Thanks splattj I will be going with the AEM EMS and will be investigating whether or not I will need the other MAP sensor etc equipment too. As with everything I want to do it right the first time. Even though this will not be a daily driver I have found that stand alones are the only way to go if you want your car to start/idle etc. like factory but still be a pissed when you get on the gas.

I have almost completed the plan (cut out a lot of parts that will not be needed from the intake and fuel/tuning) and only have to decide which turbo I will be going with. I will more than likely be contacting forced for a quick spooling turbo (I will have 3 inch turbo back exhaust from extreme) that will comfortably and quickly build 20-21psi of boost. I really like my friends FP-30 but may be looking at the Green's for my goals. If anyone has any opions on this it would be appreciated.

Other wise thanks for all the help