Timing belt tensioner install

[phastalon]

Hey guys, I'm going to be swapping out my t-belt tensioner this weekend and I have a couple of questions. So far I have read the VFAQ, but it, of course, goes through the whole process of replacing the t-belt and I am just replacing the tensioner.

1. Do I need to loosen the center bolt on the tensioner pulley before the install?

2. If ^^^ is yes, then at what point do I tighten it back up?

3. The tensioner already has a pin in it that holds the alignment holes in place, do I need to take it out before the install or leave it in until the tensioner is in place?

Thanks in advance,

Brad

 

[dls93tsi]

Leave the pin in, and yes, you should loosen the center bolt on the tensioner pulley..once you have it installed w/ the belt in place use small allen wrenches to turn the tensioner pulley to the tightest spot then tighten the ceneter bolt. then once that is all done you can pull the pin in the tensioner..if u pull it now it will be a sob to get back into place

 

[chrisAWD]

actually i reccomend getting the special tool from miller tool. that way once the belt is on you loosinn the center bolt. apply the needed torque to the special tool(something like 15 lbs) then tighten the center. rotate motor 2 times, wait 15 minutes then check the spacing of the arm via vfaq.

 

[BUCK]

Actually you can use the Grenade Pin to set the Tensioner Gap - While threading the Allthread Tool in - As soon as you can move the Pin - You are at the Correct Dimension for setting Tension. I then reccommend you start it & run it with covers off & minumum belts - Then reset it one last time & install covers.

I hope & pray that while you are replacing the Tensioner you are replacing a lot of the other original related parts on your 90 AWD, Water Pump, Front Case Oil Seals, Pulleys, Balance Shaft delete kit, etc. If not you'll be getting lots of practice with this evolution.

 

[mustg5]

just make sure when all is said and done, that you check the length of the tensioner...very important to keep it in spec....good luck

 

[phastalon]

thanks for the responses guys, i'll try to help clear up some of the confusion. the motor was put together about 6000 miles ago, and everything was replaced except for the t-belt tensioner (only God knows why though). the water pump, t-belt, and all seals were replaced at the time the motor was put together, along with other things of course. i have been able to drive the car since it was put together (hence the 6k miles on it) but i have been afraid to drive it above 3500 rpm b/c of an odd noise coming from that area of the motor. i posted a thread in the problem diagnosis forum and was told it was definately the t-belt tensioner, hence my acquisition of a new one from the dealer.

i really don't want to take the belt off b/c i am afraid that i will mess up the timing, but i am hoping i can do this with the belt still on. i am just wanting to jack the motor up, pull the old tensioner out, replace it with the new one, make sure it is at the right specs and bolt the motor mount back up. if i can't do this, then i will have to shell out some $ and have a reputable shop do it (definately not the ones who put the motor in) and i really don't have that kind of money right now.

sorry for the long post, but all the help is really appreciated

 

[BUCK]

Your plan is doable - Hopefully the T/Belt wasn't damaged from running slack - I'd be scared to start it no matter drive it under 3500 rpm.
Good Luck.

 

[phastalon]

**********update************

thanks to everyone for the help, the install went extremely well and was much easier than anticipated.

there is a problem though......i can't get the car to start.

one thing i noticed is that once everything was put together, when i tried to start the car i could take the key out of the ignition and it would still try to turn over for a few more seconds. it sounded like the starter was stuck or something, it was kind of odd.

i definately have spark (did the ol' spark plug to the block test) and air. i got fuel from the fuel return line, but could that have been from gas in the line from before? the reason i ask is that i don't hear my fuel pump anymore (walbro 255). i've check the fuses and they are all fine, could i be missing a ground or something?

regards,
Brad

 

[BUCK]

one thing i noticed is that once everything was put together, when i tried to start the car i could take the key out of the ignition and it would still try to turn over for a few more seconds. it sounded like the starter was stuck or something, it was kind of odd.

IF I understand your post correctly this sounds kinda like a Starter that is over-revving because it's spinning a Motor that is making NO Compression due to the fact that the Timing Belt has been incorrectly installed - OR The Timing Belt was improperly Tensioned & jumped when you hit the Starter - I hope I'm wrong - Turn the Crank to TDC & report the exact position of the Cam Sprocket marks back asap.

BUCK: I then reccommend you start it & run it with covers off & minumum belts - Then reset it one last time & install covers.

By any chance did you take my advice?

 

[1fast97gsx]

yea pull the covers off and check and make sure everything is still aligned.... let us know what's up.

 

[phastalon]

the car would never start, even with the just the minimum belts on. it cranked about 6-7 times (even though i tried to stop at 3), then i rechecked everything (including the timing marks that i made with some blue paint) after getting it to crank the correct number of times. everything was still lined up okay and the tensioner is doing it's job, everything is in spec as far as i can tell.

i was able to keep the belt in place while replacing the tensioner, and the "grenade" pin worked out well.

should i run a compression check or any other test that you guys can think of?

the lower cover is now back on, but the top cover is still off. everything at this point is back together, including all belts.

i don't know if this plays into this or not, but i replaced the alternator while doing the tensioner install. while removing the old unit, the ground wire and power wire that run into the plug were worn out and sparked during the removal process. would this have any bearing on the situation?

again, i appreciate all of the help. it is guys like you that make the dsm community what it is

thanks again

 

[phastalon]

***update again****

after reading and rereading your alls posts then reading and rereading my manual and haynes manual, i've come to the conclusion that i've jumped time.

in my dsm manual in the troubleshooting section it lists a problem called "dieseling." apparently "dieseling" is when you try to start the car and it continues to start even after you have turned the key to the "off" position. "dieseling" only happens when you are out of time (according to the manual).

thank you guys again for all the help! i will probably have more questions once i get into actually setting the time, but any advanced suggestions will be appreciated

 

[BUCK]

Turn the Crank to TDC & report the exact position of the Cam Sprocket marks back asap.

 

[Groomz]

Maybe a little late, but a good thing to keep the timing lined up is to zip-tie the timing belt to the cam gears, just as a precaution. Rotating the motor in the opposite direction can also make the belt jump a tooth.

 

[phastalon]

okay, i finally got to see where the timing marks were.

looking from the driver's side fender, at top dead center.....

the cam gear closest to the FIREWALL is 4 left from top (meaning that there is one tick pointing straight up, and the mark is 4 left from that)

the cam gear closest to the FRONT OF THE CAR is 3 left from top (meaning that there is one tick pointing straight up, and the mark is 3 left from that)

 

[BUCK]

Assuming you have the Crank at TDC - & assuming I unsderstand yopur decsription of the Cam gear positions - You are RADICALLY out of time - DEFINITELY have bent Valves - PERIOD - Your previous bad Tensioner - and/or previously incorrectly Tensioned Timing Belt has screwed you good.

Sorry dude - a lot of us have been there.... You may find this helpful...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99037&highlight=face

 

[phastalon]

where should the timing marks be??

should they be pointing towards each other (looking from the driver's side fender, the cam gear closest to the front of the car is pointing towards the back of the car and the cam gear closest to the firewall is pointing towards the front of the car)??

Thanks again,

I'll be pulling the head to see if there were any valves bent (might as well learn now)

 

[TwoLiterV8Eater]

The two timing marks on the cam gears should be facing directly at each other, with each one pointing towards the center of the head. It is easy to get them slightly off or even off 1 or 2 teeth when re-installing the belt. The exhaust cam needs to have some tension on it when the belt is put on. I have found the best thing to do is line up the intake gear and all the other timing marks, then use a large breaker bar or socket wrench to turn the exhaust cam counter clockwise slightly, then slip the belt over the teeth. Usually it looks like it is a tooth off but after rotating it back clockwise it will line up. Sometimes this takes several attempts. Good luck, I hope I explained this well, its hard without actually being there.

Also, if your timing marks are that far off now, and the motor has been cranked over several times, most likely you do have some bent valves.

Did you rotate the belt 6 times before even attempting to start it? It is also very adviseable to use the 1/2" socket hole on the crank to turn the motor over at least 6 times by hand to make sure nothing is making contact.

Good luck with your head removal.

 

[phastalon]

damn, they are way off then.

thanks for the tip on lining them back up, i'll definately need that once it is time for the reinstall.

i really don't know when it jumped, i tried to crank it several times (stupid stupid stupid) but i guess i'll have to pull the head to know for sure.

sooooooooo....anyone close to knoxville want to swing by and help a brotha out (for a 12 pack of your choice):laugh:

 

[1fast97gsx]

damn man that sucks. At least you get to try the belt again once the head is fixed