2G Torque Converter Spacing

[jlsperok]

Just a quick background: I have a '97 GS-T automatic that I did a 6-bolt swap in. I am running into some problems with the starter grinding/not engaging, and am trying to eliminate possibilities one by one. I am aware of the spacer plate, flexplate, bushing, etc. and have all of those in place.

I believe all 2G autos had the same converter, so I will throw this question out there, and hopefully someone can help. How deep does the torque converter sit into the bell housing on a stock 7-bolt setup? In other words, how much space is in between the end of the bell housing (that mates to your block), and the ring gear on the TC?

I want to compare what I have to see if they are close. Also, how far does the starter engage into the TC upon turning the key? Does anyone have the measurements on a stock 2G TC as well? I just want to make absolutely sure that everything I have in place is correct. I don't want to drop this tranny again.

Thanks,
- Jason

 

[toojung2die]

How deep does the torque converter sit into the bell housing on a stock 7-bolt setup? In other words, how much space is in between the end of the bell housing (that mates to your block), and the ring gear on the TC?

Also, how far does the starter engage into the TC upon turning the key?

Since I happen to have my lower TC cover off I measured from the front edge of the bellhousing to the ring gear of my stock TC. It is exactly .5". Sorry, I can't measure the starter engagement.

 

[jlsperok]

Thanks for the response. I looked at mine, and I measured 15/32", so that is pretty close. I had the starter tested, and it is good.

Here is a diagram of all my measurements... do they seem correct?

 

[toojung2die]

Thanks for the response. I looked at mine, and I measured 15/32", so that is pretty close. I will try a 1/16" spacer to see if that helps. I had the starter tested, and it is good. Here is a diagram of all my measurements... do they seem correct?

Your starter gear only has to travel 1/16" before it engages the ring gear. You say the starter gear moves 1/2" during engagement. I doubt a 1/32" difference in our measurements would cause your problem. I would be looking at the diameter of the starter gear. Is it too small? If it is too small in diameter then only the tips of the two gears would contact and account for the slipping/grinding you are getting. There is more than enough travel into the ring gear by the starter gear to allow for complete engagement. I would want to find out of there is a difference between the 1g and 2g starter pinion gears.

 

[jlsperok]

I tried measuring the diameter of the starter gear, but was unable to accurately, due to the shaft that the gear moves on. I was able to get the radius of the gear though, and it is 9/32".

How would I go about estimating what I might actually need there, since I cannot very well get a good look at how that is engaging? Any suggestions? Does 9/32" sound right? I will have to try and track down some other parts this weekend and get more measurements.

Thanks,
- Jason

 

[toojung2die]

You'll have to compare your starter to another. My engine bay is all back together and as you know the starter is not easy to get to. You should see if you can compare your starter to another at an auto parts store (if you can find one that has a DSM starter in stock). Good luck.

 

[jlsperok]

I went to Autozone, and had them pull all the starters that they listed for Eclipses over the years. There is no way the other ones would even work, and mine matched the one they listed for my car, so I am confident that I have the right starter.

Anyone know anything about the different converters for our cars? Autozone lists the same converter for all automatics (90 - 99 FWD). I thought that the 2g's had lock-up converters, so why they only listed one was beyond me.

Is it possible I was given a converter to a 3000GT? I wonder if they are similar enough to not notice a difference, but different enough to throw my starter clearance off.

 

[toojung2die]

I think you've established to the best of your ability that you have the right starter. The next step as you have stated is to compare TC's. Can someone here count the number of teeth on the ring gear of their stock TC? If you don't get a reply, I'll jack up my car, take off the lower cover and count the teeth on my TC for you. Hope someone here has a TC already out of the car.

 

[Mirage1]

I could be wrong, but isn't this the reason this kit exists?

IPT / Kiggly 6 Bolt Engine to 2G Adapter Kit

http://www.importperformancetrans.com/mitsubishiauto.shtml#main

 

[jlsperok]

Yes. I was moving along with the project as this kit was still being developed, and worked with the Kiggly to get the specs for everything. I fabricated the spacer plate, used the correct flexplate, and ordered the bushing, so basically, I have that kit in place. It appears that something else is incorrect.

Thanks,

 

[tmizer]

I realize you know what you're doing, but could you kinda clarify your setup?

6-bolt flexplates are 3 "fingered" or sided, whatever you want to call it. 7-bolt flexplates have 4. Are you using a custom flexplate or are you using a 6-bolt converter in the 7-bolt tranny?

 

[jlsperok]

Sorry if I was not clear enough. Basically, there is a 6-bolt flexplate available that is 4-eared ('X'). What I did, was order that from Mitsu, then slotted the holes a tiny bit so that it would work with my 2G converter. Here is a pic of the flexplate after I slotted the holes:

Slotted flexplate

Once that is in place, I also had to fabricate a spacer plate that is a 1/4" thick in order to offset the difference of the 6-bolt vs. 7-bolt setup. Without this spacer, too much pressure is placed on the tranny pump, and will wipe it out. The other part that you also need is the crank bushing, as the 1G is different than the 2G.

Here is a page I put together thus far on the project:

1997 Eclipse Automatic - 1G in a 2G

I hope this makes things a bit more clear.

- Jason

 

[tmizer]

Jason-
Thanks for the info on the 4-eared, 6-bolt, flex plate. You don't happen to have a Mitsu p/n for that do you?
My 7-bolt 4G64 required me to use my 1-G 7-bolt crank insert, slightly turned down on the O.D. so it would fit into the crank. Then, of course, I had to fab a front roll-stopper since the newer block had the mounting bosses shifted towards the timing side of the block. Ah, well, such is the "joy" of DSM ownership.

 

[kiggly]

Jason, do you still have the OEM engine-trans shim plate in there? That has to be between the transmission and the starter, it is what keeps the starter aligned to the ring gear. Also make sure you have both the dowels in the block because they are what this shim plate locates on (it has precision holes for the dowels and the starter snout).

Kevin

 

[jlsperok]

Yes, I made sure that I had the OEM shim plate in there. I also made sure that everything was flush ( the dowel pins were in the block ). Since I didn't have any other ideas, I wanted to make certain that there wasn't anything wrong with the converter ( maybe I had the wrong one?), so I pulled the tranny last weekend. The converter looks exactly the same as my old one, so that isn't the issue. There aren't any teeth that are missing on the ring gear.

I think I am going to try and mount the starter up while the tranny is out and test the alignment. I can pull the shim plate off, mount the starter, and then get a better look at how it is going to engage from there. Granted, the torque converter won't be attached to the flexplate, but I should at least be able to get a better idea of what is going on.

Thanks,
- Jason